My Interview on Naturopathic Medicine for CFS and FMS (with Cinda Crawford's website)

Hello forum members,

Mardy, thank you for asking me to post the link here to the full hour podcast on Naturopathic Medicine, CFS and Fibromyalgia syndrome which I did with Cinda Crawford recently.  To listen, click here

Cinda Crawford Interviews Dr. Christopher Lepisto on Naturopathic Medicine for CFS and Fibromyalgia syndrome.

In this interview, I elaborate on the "full barrel" of history, exposures and experiences that play a part in the whole picture of CFS and fibromyalgia syndrome.  I hope many find it helpful to their health.

Dr. Christopher

So for those who wish to LISTEN to learn, this link takes you right to where it will download the file from Cinda's website and off you go listening.  For those who prefer to read and have an easy to refer to resource, which is actually current in 2014 and has up-to-date information, and what we understand about this has evolved a lot. But I've listened in 2014, September to what is at the link, above, and it's all pertinent to this day. He's talking about the classics and underlying way of looking at symptoms:

 

UPDATE IN EARLY 2018 -- WHEN TRYING THE LINK IT NO LONGER PLAYS THE PODCAST BUT ALLOWS YOU TO SIGN UP WITH THE COMPANY WHERE THE PODCAST WAS, APPARENTLY, SO I'm GLAD I DID THE OVERVIEW TYPING OF THE CONTENT WHEN I DID, AS YOU'LL SEE HERE........ ~ Mardy

                      

Full Barrel Syndrome is discussed - "the straw that breaks the camel's back", multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS).  What goes into the "barrel", how to lessen the new burdens going into the body, how to remove toxins and things that will affect them negatively.  Examples -- why can people not handle supplements (because they're so sensitive to the fillers and binders that are used in production), MSG.

NOTE: We originally heard Dr Lepisto present about Full Barrel Syndrome in 2008, and he'd learned it in his formative years as a naturopathic doctor / student, which was years before that, he was really at a good 'experience point' at the time of our sharing a year of time at the new integrative clinic we helped get off the ground before the concept fell apart into a different kind of clinic format and we all went our separate ways one by one (aside from the owner/MD who I'm pleased to say is still there, just with a different kind of clinic than originally proposed, so in the community overall it worked out the best for patients as they have ALL of it available to them, just separate offices and providers, not an integrative collaborative group.  

I saw Dr Lepisto in 2014, in the spring, and asked him if he was aware that fibromyalgia and neuro disorders such as progressive ones (ALS was the example discussed) had to do with underlying Lyme disease. This was where the seed for that information was planted for his learning process, so naturally, the barrel when he describes or draws it in the future might include more things, such as chronic infections of bacteria, viruses, fungus -- that does fall into the cellular metabolism wastes .

As "Lyme" or 'neuroLyme', neuroborreliosis, etc. are becoming the leading 'buzz words' about complex chronic disorders that leave the person with chronic fatigue and pain, replacing or 'teaming' with 'fibromyalgia', I want to point that out. And give you the link here to the Environmental Wellness/Illness forum where you'll find the majority of our topics about that aspect. Naturally Searching at our search bar will be another strategy.   www.lumigrate.com/forums/preventive-medicine-concepts/environmental-wellness-vs-environmental-illness

The link to a one minute snippet that shows the Full Barrel Syndrome diagram and Dr Lepisto doing the overview of all the factors is something we launched with in 2009, here's the link: www.lumigrate.com/product/chronic-illness-full-barrel-syndrome-dr-christopher-lepisto

Treatment is an individual story so that you remove these obstacles to cure by looking at the person's individual case. 

Maintenance by cleansing and detoxification of the pathways of the body's systems for that (liver is primary, lungs, kidneys and skin, so these are supported with cleansing). We're all constantly exposed to toxins, and our abilities are always there to deal with them. Each individual has a different ability to detox on their own. 

scorecard.org is referred to, so you look up by ZIP code, the toxic release inventory for the area. The most common polluters are shown. It's estimated that it's about half of what's typically in the environment because of the reporting loopholes. 

Each one of us has a better opportunity for reversing symptoms if we remove the obstacles to cure. 

Stress: Examples are going to a city where your 'ex' lives, realistically is a factor. 

The Grand Valley is discussed, and the inversions from the cold air trapping pollutants (and wood burning for heating that is a factor in the area), and Cinda dicusses her living in a 'bowl' near the Blue Ridge Mountains. Dr Lepisto says he has people relate they fell better when they get out of the Valley. 'What is your individual tolerance' is the factor.

The principle of opening the emunctories -- the pathways of elimination. How is the body is eliminating toxins from the liver (stool), kidneys (urine), skin (sweat), lungs (breath) --- and emotional work is important because the 'issues are in the tissues' too. The pathways need to be open before detoxing actively.

As one example: if you give someone a chelating agent (DMSA or DMPS) for heavy metals removal and they can't detox things out, then they'll feel sick. If someone is constipated, they need to get that working right before they intensively detoxify. Same with kidney health. 

And perhaps the emotional is the area that needs the most support. It's been the 'grab bag' for everything that goes on for people that Cinda has spoken with, she relates. 

Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome, what it is symptom-wise? Widespread body pain, uncontrollable (sometimes) fatigue. Trigger points where the pain is focused. MCS/ multiple chemical sensitivities. Headaches. Insomnia/ sleep disorder. These are among the symptoms. (Mardy adds they didn't include intestinal issues / 'the gut', irritable bowel, constipation, etc.)

The immune system might be battling a superinfection, where there's a chronic virus, bacteria, fungus or mix of all. So the person might need an herb for the fungus, probiotics for the gut to get the good gut flora, and everyone has a certain number of fungi and bacteria, which is normal; it gets out of balance with people who have had exposures and factors that knocked things out of balance.  

(EDITING IN 2016, please consult information at Lumigrate I added in 2015 about SIBO, small intestine bacteria overgrowth, the probiotic craze might have been inadvertently doing some harm and wasn't all good for some or most people when looking through the SIBO-information-lens). 

Lead paint. There are still children in the US who are getting lead poisoning from old lead paint chips. (Mardy EDITING in 2016, we're now getting lots of information about lead pipe fittings in municipal tap water supplies around the US and beyond so this was rather limited view on where the lead exposure was coming from, though certainly lead paint is of significance too.) You'll see what I'd added at the time of my doing this writeup: I covered it then!  

(Mardy's note: there are often lead plumbing issues in older cities' water systems going into the buildings, and other sources as well). 

Amalgam fillings/ 'silver', not gold, sometimes they're called 'metal'.  They're 50% mercury. Nobody disputes mercury's toxicity. What is debated is if fillings are harmful to have in the mouth. He goes into the other countries that have used the known scientific literature and have outlawed all or some types of people who cannot be given these fillings due to their medical condition. The US is behind. 

Even if someone is perfectly healthy, he encourages replacement of them, and certainly with those with CFS and fibromyalgia. (Mardy's note, here's just one link, find others Searching keywords here, but this is a primary topic with great comments from holistic dentist Jim Kennedy, Marc Spurlock, MD, and Robin Thomas (all of whom have worked on my 'case'/YOU team. Dr Kennedy and Dr Christopher/Lepisto re my mouth have been invaluable allies on "Mardy's YOU Team"; Dr Lepisto recommended I remove amalgams as he got more experience and had a patient similar to me who only had a few small ones do it, and he took off with his wellness after. I had the same occur, happily (and mine were $900. And Dr Kennedy for jaw positioning which allowed for better sinus drainage, I quit being able to break teeth with the splint as well, and it aided with airflow and apnea problems as well as the TMJ it was primarily intended for.) www.lumigrate.com/forum/mercury-silver-amalgam-fillings-blame-vs-take-action-what-are-you-going-do

How Dr Christopher / Lepisto works with patients: He sits down for two 45 minute visits initially to get the story from them, and what is the cause -- not treating symptoms, treating causes. (And he creates the care plan in between the visits.) (NOTE AT THE END HE SAID HE DOES REMOTE PHONE WORK TOO, that was a while back, he may no longer do that -- if you're interested in consulting with him, please keep that in mind if you contact him. ALSO, my intention always with having the LOCAL providers that helped so many of us with 'fibromyalgia' diagnosed was to plant the seed to look for as good a provider as you could where YOU live, and our example of what to look --- such as what are the esteemed programs for naturopaths and which are not, etc.  

Dr Christopher, as is read by Cinda at this point, in what he provided to her as biography for this interview, went through the Bastyr program. It's highly regarded. So then Google "Naturopathic colleges" and other words to tease out and 'vet' the providers -- or whatever -- chiropractic, medical, osteopathic, etc. -- trying to work in little strategy 'tips' along the way here.) 

He goes on to say that "Green" conventional medicine is something that is a complete disservice to people because they don't look at the individual symptoms and causes and addressing the patient in an individualized way. That would be where there are solutions that are herbal or nutritional / supplementation -- more natural -- but it's cookie cutter and not individualized. 

Food allergies can be diagnosed. Do they consume enough fresh, clean water. Do they get enough vitamin D production and level (interjecting that D gets drained from some of the toxins he refers to above) from being outside and in the diet. 

Smoking is another example of toxins and things that can be changed to change wellness level. 

This can all be difficult overall. Start with the step that's right in front of you. Who doesn't have a few vices we could give up or do less. Adding in more fruits and vegetables, and get going on organics and quality. 

Cinda points out/questions that taking one step can seem too small when they see how much is involved ultimately. Dr Lepisto's response:  The culture has encouraged the paternal model that says 'mom or dad (someone else/ doctor, etc...) will fix that'.  The person/adult is not taking responsibility.

Have we taken 100% responsibility for ourselves within our experiences, especially the difficult, traumatic events? If we're not being the one taking on the responsiblility for our resposes to these events, then who will?  Cinda says people get defensive because they don't see that they have committed the error for how this difficult health situation came to be. It's not like you knew eating all that wheat/ white bread was bad for you and you ate it. (But you did eat it, there's the responsibility.)  

Abuse: Suggesting we own up to the experiences and our own personal journey, it doesn't mean we give up our personal power.  We are on a collective journey we're on in our culture too, but it has to begin with each individual for their own human journey. I'm ready to help others --- these are issues we have to address after we've taken care of our own journeys.  You don't just forgive and forget the abuser but see what the journey you are on is about and reconcile that. 

Questions: What can I do about fatigue every day?

Example of someone who had written in with multiple demands ... home, wife, mother, etc. Always tired. Dr Lepisto's response was about "Codependency" and he referred people to his therapists' website, which is emotionschool dot com ... "codependency is giving up responsibility that is something that is ours, and taking responsibility for something that is not." 

An example: A parent can overnurture and take on responsibility they don't need to, or not let go of them as the child ages. Especially after age 6 to 8 when the child can individuate. The child really should take the lead and it will hinder the child if the parent doesn't have their boundary in the right place. Example: What's for dinner. Sometimes moms are not allowing the child to take responsibility for what they are eating for dinner, and the mother ends up drained.  The mom is taking on too much. 

When people begin to have fatigue, it's a vicious cycle. They don't have the energy to take care of themselves, so they then do less, and it's a vicious cycle. It's VERY difficult. Is there one step that we could take in our primary relationship, or with our children, that would allow for more time and energy for the person with the illness, then that is a step to do. Hopefully to yeild better or more sleep... This is where a therapist can come in.  Know the resources in your community (he referred to the clinic for people with low income that has counseling for a $10 fee), and look at those FIRST STEPS that can be taken. 

Cinda's point: Don't wait until you're penniless BEFORE you take the reins. Once you're penniless -- if you cannot afford that $10 for the therapist at a low income clinic, where are you? 

Inflammation: Chronic inflammatory is different than acute, local like when you sprain or injure a joint. With chronic inflammation, that becomes ongoing -- it's like the tape gets stuck, or the CD skips and comes back to same place.  That is not a healthy response, and it needs help to move out of that acute inflammation. So inflammation has a big part of CF and fibromyalgia. Food allergies are a big cause.

Say they have a reaction to wheat, and they're eating that every day. Their symptoms don't get better, they'll get worse. Wheat, nightshades and citrus are big contributors as the likely suspects if we lined them up to chronic pain. (For more about nightshades and inflammation, this Lumigrate topic about inflammation by Jeff McCloskey, DC is a great resource (that has had 16,000 reads as of the start of fall 2014): www.lumigrate.com/forum/10-ways-stop-chronic-inflammation-now

Thyroid: Hashimotos and low thyroid/hypothyroid (underfunctioning -- fatigue, weight gain, irritability, hair loss, and other symptoms are discussed). 

Food allergies: An elimination diet is really helpful and very difficult. Who wants to eliminate all the common foods for two weeks, even just doing gluten and dairy is a huge difficulty. Then you reintroduce them one at a time and look for the reactions. A certain type of patient that can methodically do this, it works. (Mardy's note: if a person doesn't want to spend the money or doesn't have the money for testing, then this is an option. For more about the symptoms you look for when consuming something that causes a reaction: 

ALCAT Labs does a form of white blood cell testing that looks at which foods cause a reaction and how severe it is, so this gets all the reactions (IgG, IgE, food sensitivities). Cinda said in the past she got this approved by her insurance with a little pushing. Dr Lepisto explains how the testing is done at the lab and it comes out with mild, moderate and severe reaction with the answer for all the food items they test the blood for. (Link to their list of tests at their website: www.alcat.com/pages/test-guides/ -- the cheapest test they have for foods is $399 if that saves inquiring minds the trip. I'd suggest you go to see the various tests they have, though, it's very interesting and they have a lot of education at their website. Clearly an established company that is respected and used by Dr Lepisto and many others -- Cinda had used them in the past as is said, etc.) 

Super infection: A previous infection that has lead to a current infection -- so multiple layers of infection and ongoing. And often are undiagnosed. They might be looking at other factors and then missing this infectious issue -- to diagnose, there are many things looking at blood, stool, etc. A chronic fungal issue is often the case in fibromyalgia -- from chronic use of antibiotics, or a single use of antibiotics of a month or more, those are two of the more common ways it develops. Symptoms: a craving or reaction to sugar (such as 'it rocks my boat'), chronic ear issues of many kinds. Candida is a common species that overgrows. 

Free download about this available at his webiste .. grandjunctionnaturopath dot com, www.grandjunctionnaturopath.com/health-resources/

Horopito is the most powerful herb he's ever seen. The booklet explains the whole candida story, as well as Horopito. Forest Herbs produces it, from New Zealand, and he used to work for them after he was there in NZ and came back to the US, getting the product at marketing events.  (NOTE, he has a new website along the way since the 4 years since this was recorded (and 530 people had read this topic by 9/23/14 when I transcribed the interview) so what is said in the interview is the 'old news', the link, above is the currently correct info). Local teas for areas -- Mormon tea is a wonderful one in Western Colorado, he mentions.

Cinda talks about how the candida problem is a common problem And all the books written about the sugar problem. 

Water therapy. Humans have been using hot and cold water for a long time. The Finns/ Finland people alternate hot and cold. So, for example, people usually prefer shower or bath.

For shower: Contrast hydrotherapy in the shower. Start with the normal hot shower, then turn the water over to pleasantly cool for 30 seconds. Focuse the water on areas that are sore or stiff. Go back to warm for 3 minutes and back to cool. Do this 3x and finish with the cool or cold (as you do this more often you can go colder as you're able, and it will enhance the therapeutic benefit -- the heat expands, the cold contracts and it moves the waste from normal body metabolisms, it will normalize the nervous system. It can help with sleep (and there are other details when you hear the interview). 

Discomfort is okay -- that's different than painful. Same with exercise, it's a form of stress on the body. Discover the boundaries and allow for an amount of 'discomfort' there. And contrast hydrotherapy can be a way to discover how to better handle stress in our lifes. Just breathe for 30 seconds through a cooler water period. (and ajust the temperature as needed). 

Often this is wonderful therapy for people with fibromyalgia because it is controllable and can be easily modified. These are very old therapeutic techniques. And Dr L's mission is to re-educate the masses about things of our traditions we've just forgotten. This often aids with sleep. 

For baths, do a hot bath then wrap a towel from a bucket of cool water around for local areas, around the midsection is for the vital organs -- again 30 seconds. And helps with kidney and liver / is a general detoxification protocol. 

Mardy's Note: Contrast baths are a staple in occupational and physical therapy when working with the hands/forearms and feet/lower legs --- but there's quite a lot of detail that is best to know about for those applications. Here's a website I found that had a really great topic about contrast baths: 

apmspineandsports.com/therapy/contrast-bath/

Botanical medicine. Milk thistle, globe artichoke and dandelion (artichokes are great on a cleanse) for liver support. Liver salad -- dark, leavy greens, add some kale or similar, fresh grated beets (which releases sweeness), olive oild and apple cider vinegar -- complete salad. 

Drchristopher at mac dot com is his invitation to email, he does phone consults as well, so you don't have to be local. 970 is the area code / number is 250-4104.  "Be well naturally, that's what I do with my practice." Please let him know if you do call that you heard him on this place (and that would include Lumigrate as I actually connected them on Facebook when Dr Lepisto started his new Facebook page and of course wanted FB friends. This is at GetWellHealth from Cinda Crawford).  And she naturally encourages people to check back for her website's other wonderful guests and interviews.  She seemed very inspired by this one, and I hope it has helped a lot of people.  (And that this readable version is of added benefit that I've provided.)