Concussion/ Mild Head Injury - Cause Long-Term Effects Sometimes. When In Doubt, Sit It Out.

Hello Mardy,

Grate information!   I've personally had nearly no experience with concussions, however, I'm now part of a parenting group for a very active and athletic 11 year old.  Soccer is his sport of choice and he is really good, it's kind of amazing how good he is since he came late to the sport.

But, through watching soccer, I can see where concussions are a real danger.  He's taken a ball to the face or back of the head often and "headers" are a common way to move the ball downfield.   Every time, it makes me cringe!   

Thanks for all the info, including symptoms, we'll definitely keep an eye on this better!

Good to know, Aimee!  I'm going to hope that the local providers who have done the work that I benefitted from learning from today will want to register and write on Lumigrate and post links to resources (and their businesses, naturally) AND any other people who have knowledge of these things.  I'd be really interested to know what top experts in the field think about the safe age for 'headers' being used to propel the ball.  The 'good news' from my understanding, is that it's more a rotational injury that starts setting things up for problems.  You saw the detail I included as a "Fun Fact" about the movie scene showing someone getting hit on the head by an oject from behind knocking them out isn't possible?  See, I start thinking more about things like falling skiing and skating and those things.  One woman I was just emailing with who lives here in western Colorado said 'falling from horses, normal woman stuff'. 

I'd like to get something in here about 'diffuse axonal injury' as that was something that tripped up many of my patient/clients in the past.  They'd be in a car crash, go to the ER, have imaging of some kind which would show no problems (MRI or CT scan) and then have symptoms and later get that diagnosis.  As I recall from neurology class, the brain when it's in a live body is much the consistency of oatmeal, not like we experience it in class when we have brains that have been preserved for us to learn from.  Coup/counter coup injuries occur when a person goes from traveling in a direction to stopping, as I understand it.  SO many people who were in car crashes and the airbags deployed and nothing was smacked on the head don't think about what injury might have gone on in the head.  That's going from high speeds but the same thing happens in falls.  I  mean, how fast was my head travelling when I was jumping off the roof and then coming to a sudden stop?  

Here's the interesting thing: You'll see Lynn Hellerstein, OD has written in a section about children and academic success here at Lumigrate.com (and has a really good book that I just think anyone with a brain would want to have whether it belongs in a young person's skull or not).  She was my personal optometrist in the late 90s and the first time she did an exam she turned back to my paperwork and said 'where did you get the head injury?'  I'd never 'had a head injury' either!  Statistically it's been proven that falls from a certain height don't cause them, so it couldn't have been THAT.  I got so bored in my pre-teen years I used to climb on the roof and jump off for fun .....  I didn't ride a lot of amusement park rides BUT you start wondering about some of the forces of those when you look at this rising tide of chronic illnesses ...... that seem to respond to treatments that head injuries do, such as fibromyalgia and hormone therapy (refer to Dr. Spurlock's portion of The Three Doctors Interview). 

Virtually everyone with fibromyalgia has thyroid dysfunction we know, and this whole cascade of hormones and brain chemicals starts somewhere, and as we hear from our experts on Lumigrate such as April Schulte-Barclay, DAOM, and Marc Spurlock, MD -- I believe I've heard or read them ALL saying 'there are many different types of fibromyalgia and just as many causes and contributing factors.  And I don't really mean to focus on fibromyalgia with this related to concussion, but there are many with fibromyalgia who have cervical disk irregularities/problems. 

In May when coming back from meeting with Karen Richardson, OTR, CDRS (Certified Driving Rehabilitation Specialist who has "Karen's Korner" here on Lumigrate), I was listening to NPR and there was a story about a young woman athlete who got a mild head injury in her high school sport and it drastically affected her performance.  It reminded me of the timeframe I met Karen when I was working in driving rehabilitation for MasterDrive in Denver, which starts dozens of 15 year old drivers every weekend in the summer in skills clinics.  Mondays I always had a report from any student who had difficulties and didn't pass. 

Once it was a gal who had been all cleared by her doctors after having been a passenger in a car crash and it just didn't seem it needed to be told to us this had occurred.  The skills instructors identified the decreased reactions, etc., and since we'd not known about it and observed it and it was a problem, it ended up winning her more benefits for neuropsychology treatment.  I remember her mom saying the main thing she noticed is that in the past the girl always had her homework done when she/Mom got home from work and after the crash she was napping and putting it off until after dinner. 

If anyone's interested in what Dr. Schulte-Barclay said, it's a Comment in Dr. Rand's Forum in the Fibromyalgia/Chronic Pain section, under a piece he posted this past weekend about fibro and traditional Chinese medicine (TCM).  The Three Doctors interview is in the same big section in the Awareness Forum (as I have said and provided a link above as well). 

I'll see if some of the people who put the presentation today will provide the YouTube video we watched from ESPN, it was very good but I want to give them the opportunity to hop in here and share ~~ Mardy

Good post Mardy.  I suffered a closed head injury in a 1992 car accident, so these discussions always interest me.  I've had mulitple surgeries to repair the flesh that was torn from my head but thankfully the skull was left intact.

It's taken years for my brain to relearn certain things but other things, like balance, thinking quick (and sometimes, just making sense) will always be impaired.  It's important for people to be aware of how even a minor concussion can affect someone, so again, thanks for posting this.

Marylee

 Head injury correlates with whiplash (cervical neck injury). Some studies that have shown a correlation with increased permanent fibromyalgia (tenfold increase in older studies).  A recent study I read did not find the same correlation, however.

Note from January 2012: I have been contacted by more than one former patient of Dr Rand's at Bay Recovery who have asked me to remove all information about him due to their concerns for others based upon their experiences. I appreciate that they are taking the time to research where he might be doing outreach to get his name heard, so thank YOU.  That is true 'generosity of time and energy' which might be translated into 'spirit'.  

I had encountered a change with Dr Rand's behaviors when interacting with me which were very different than how I had experienced him when we spent a day at a chronic pain conference together, so had stopped working to get information from him into Lumigrate at that time.  I have removed all the solo pieces he and his team had posted in the past in Forums but I have opted to keep this and one other piece but adding this disclaimer/caution, because it is "baby with bathwater" as this is an excellent resource for people.  If he was providing good information in the past which is included here and people can learn from it, that's one thing; using him as a physician would be another which I would want people to make their own decisions about.  

To help in your researching this provider (and I suggest you do this for all your providers) here's a link to the portion of the California Medical Board related to Dr Rand's current and past  http://www2.mbc.ca.gov/LicenseLookupSystem/PhysicianSurgeon/Lookup.aspx?licenseType=G&licenseNumber=25749. My apologies for not having done that step after we had met when Lumigrate was only two months 'live' -- I continue to learn with this enterprise and change my procedures just as I have as a medical consumer. Just because a big TV show uses him doesn't mean there's a good history.  Not something I had to know as a woman with fibromyalgia or an OT practicing in Colorado! 

 I flew over the handlebars of my bicycle when I was 12, landed on my forehead. Passed out but was walking and talking, had a concussion and over 100 stitches in my forehead.

I had already started to suffer from migraines, and believe the head injury made them worse. Within a few years I started having mysterious symptoms and bounced from doctor to doctor over and over through the years, but was not diagnosed with fibromyalgia until I was almost 40.

I firmly believe that fibromyalgia is a neurological problem and that it is also an autoimmune disorder as I also have alopecia aerota, psoriasis and IBS, among other problems.

"bounced from doctor to doctor' as ssfamily says, above, sounds familiar.....

When Dr. Young and I had the Fibromyalgia Forum in the Primary Care Partners building here in Grand Junction, we'd take new people through the stuff we later recorded in his free video on Lumigrate.com (Health Management is the title).  (Link, below, to that part of Lumigrate OR you can click the Videos tab).  Everyone had basically the same story, and I find that Dr. Young does a really entertaining job of describing it in the video (and in person, naturally). 

When I think back to being 14 and 15 and blacking out every time I stood up, sometimes starting to twitch, and getting a glocose tolerance test of only 3 hours which showed my blood sugar went to 180 then down to 60 at hour 3 .... without the doctor or parents saying 'but then where would it have gone from THERE if we'd tested longer' .... I was a kid, I didn't know how unusual that was.  So due to the ineffective  system I was part of, I didn't get that 'merry go round', and fortunately was compliant with information that I learned related to blood sugar and diet (and was always an exerciser), so I kept 'above the drain' until I was 29 and then even then was so fortunate that my primary care doctor in Fort Collins knew about one of the ENTs in town knowing what chronic fatigue was about because he was somehow into information from National Jewish in Denver.  Or, I should say that I never had what a lot of people have happen, where they're told 'you're making this up' or it was attributed to psychological issues.  I was tired sometimes, but never in anything close to 'the blues' or 'funk' (why is it music and psychological slang are similar, anyway?  Has anyone else noticed that?).

I didn't have the 'wild goose chase' UNTIL 1995.  That's when I got a lot of weakness in my legs and arms, moreso on one side I noticed with my workouts at the gym.  I had pain radiating down one arm which got worse at times, and considering one day I'd ridden my bike home from campus and was FINE and then couldn't walk up the few steps of the house, it was a baffling array of symptoms.  That was the summer I was taking cadaver anatomy -- that's what I was doing on campus.  I'd just ridden all over Alaska for two weeks!  AND transferred off of my COBRA HMO to a private $10,000 deductible plan since I was going to OT school and there was no way to also work for the University anymore, as they had us doing so many group projects that it wasn't like you had a set schedule.  (Just my 'please think' about our educational system's practicality for modern times.....).

I've written about this in other areas of Lumigrate in hopes it will help consumers, providers, and the medical industry better understand the repercussions of how things rolled along for me.  But long story short, I ended up having a new PCP think it seemed like MS and make a neurology referral.  She ordered MRIs of the head and neck and since there were lesions in the brain they then brought in the IV team and lit me up with contrast and did them over. 

Guess what?  $10,000 deductible happened RIGHT THERE.  (And I did my share of thinking 'please let this be anything but MS') After waiting the month to get the report and time with the neurologist.. knowing full well something was seen that was awry and suspect, I then had a lumbar puncture.  And then waited for THOSE results and time with the neurologist to follow up -- where she had 'no idea' what was going on.  I was the one who said to HER "could this be food allergies?" (because in the past the acupuncturist I had tried for a while had told me I had a problem with wheat but told me to limit eating it but not eliminate it, and everyone in my immediate family of origin had food allergy shots but I'd always tested negative on IgE skin scratch testing ... so there was a disparity in what different providers on my 'team' were saying.  The neurologist thought it was possible but had no idea who to refer me to for more information, but I called the acupuncturist who knew of an MD right there in our community who did food allergy testing similar to what is discussed on Lumigrate's "Food Allergies" video by Christopher Lepisto, ND. 

Guess what?  $400 was all it cost and while it wasn't paid for by insurance, compared to the $10,000 MRI bill it seemed like a drop in the bucket AND ..... my body reacts to dairy, wheat, eggs ...... I eliminated those for a while totally as the protocol recommended, and got dramatically better.  That's why I wanted to have Dr. Lepisto's seminar about food allergies be part of Lumigrate.com when I put the website together a couple of years years ago now!  I listened to his podcast/interview with Cinda Crawford of the Health Matters Show (and Get Well Health) yesterday and learned that he's now found a cheaper and improved way of allergy testing based on white blood cells through a company called Alcat Labs.  (I suggest you look them up online if you're interested and hopefully I'll get more on them in the near future, as I only yesterday learned about this myself).  I'm rolling up my sleeves ever since hearing that to get updated information on Lumigrate about that. 

It's important to note that I've had Dr. Spurlock suggest there are many forms of fibromyalgia from different causes, which is why it's so perplexing to people with it and their medical providers, and my form is from childhood immunizations (I was born in 1960) and maternal malnutrition.  (Which is consistent with my mother to some extent ... we had food but she was allergic to wheat, continued to drink quite a lot of alcohol and smoke at least a pack of cigarettes a day -- I was tested for heavy metals for my 45th birthday (my present to myself -- no kidding!) and mercury (in immunizations in the past), cadmium and lead were elevated or very elevated.  I understand from Dr. Spurlock, who had worked for years with the Environmental Medicine Center of Dallas as well as Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Centers there, that cadmium and lead are found in the wrappers of cigarettes and end up somehow affecting the secondhand smoker more than the firsthand smoker, interestingly.  To refer to Dr Young's Law of Lampost and Hammer you can see on Lumigrate's video, the light of my knowledge changed and my hammer did as well -- I started looking back FURTHER than my initial suspicions of toxins from a proven bad immunization in 1981 (biggest class action lawsuit before the tobacco industry).   But as Dr. Lepisto has stated so many times when I hear him speak about fibromyalgia and overall chronic illness or chronic wellness (my joke on words there, not his), it's all aspects of body, mind, spirit at play.  "Holistic" ... whole person, big picture....

For now, I'll set you up with a few links on and outside of Lumigrate to learn more, because when you hear 'autimmune', think 'what would cause the body to go so haywire, and integrative medicine generally points at food allergies on anything autoimmune.  (If you want to hear Lumigrate's MD/fibromyalgia expert Marcus Spurlock say that, it's in our collaborative interview I refer to as The Three Doctors Interview on Integrative Approaches for Fibromyalgia's Fatigue, Pain and Fog.  You can find it here in the Forums, Fibromyalgia section (look for a GREEN HEADER), "Lumigrate's Top Picks for Fibromyalgia" forum .  The link is: www.lumigrate.com/forum/three-doctors-interview-integrative-approaches-fibromyalgias-pain-insomnia-fog-and-fatigue

Link for the Videos tab of Lumigrate, where you'll see free videos by Drs. Lepisto and Young, as well as the low-cost Food Allergies video is www.lumigrate.com/catalog/seminars

Dr. Lepisto's NEW website (as he had a change of venue in Spring 2010) is: www.grandjunctionnaturopath.com, and the link to Cinda Crawford's website where she has an introductory podcast of Dr. Lepisto and we can hope she'll also have the full hour interview from 7/14/10 is: healthmattershow.com/interview-dr-christopher-lepisto-on-fibromyalgia-cfs-and-more/ (as of this writing on 7/15 mid-day, the website does not reflect an update beyond saying you can get the link to hear the interview only by enrolling BEFORE the interview yesterday, but again I don't know if that will be modified as it becomes available or she's going to sit back on that longer interview). 

I know that was a lot to read but I hope it's helpful information to those looking for solutions  ~~ Mardy

Hello forum members,

Mardy, thank you for posting the link to the podcast on Naturopathic Medicine, CFS and Fibromyalgia syndrome, and my new website and contact information here in Grand Junction, CO.  To listen to the full-hour interview with Cinda Crawford on this same subject, click here

Cinda Crawford Interviews Dr. Christopher Lepisto on Naturopathic Medicine for CFS and Fibromyalgia syndrome.

I certainly agree that traumatic injury can be a significant contributor and in this interview, I elaborate on the "full barrel" of history, exposures and experiences that play a part in the whole picture of CFS and fibromyalgia syndrome.

Dr. Christopher

 Wow Marty, thanks for all that wonderful information! Dr. Lepisto, I wish I lived in Colorado (again, I grew up out there) so I could easily see you. :-)

I worked for a terrific chiropractor in York, NE for about 3 years, whose wife was an Naturopath, and during that time I did a detox/cleanse diet twice. Basically I stopped eating anything but certain vegetables and took some supplements and a vegetable based protein drink. At the end of the 3 week diet I slowly added foods back. I discovered that I have problems with corn syrup, for one thing. It makes me swell up and ache horribly. There are so many foods on the shelves at the grocery store that have corn syrup in them! I was shocked!! I also discovered a problem with nightshades and chocolate. 

I eliminated those things from my diet and felt much better, until my stress level went through the roof. My oldest child is a Soldier in the US Army. He was sent to Iraq twice. The first tour I handled fairly well. He was in an area that was not so bad, and only gone for 12 months. The second tour, less than an year later, almost killed me. He was in Sadr City when all that stuff was going on with the Sadr Militia, and I could not get away from the news reports. He was gone for 15 months that time. My Naturopath's mother is a certified Hypnotherapist and she helped me immensely.

About the time I started getting over that one, my husband accepted a job offer that entailed moving half-way across the country. He had to start in 2 weeks, so that left me trying to clean and sort a 4 bedroom 2 story house and decide what we would move to a 2 bedroom apartment!

We've been in the Seattle area now for 7 months. I'm getting used to it. I really like the cooler weather, but am having more issues with my osteoarthritis. I am blessed to have found an MD on my first try who is a big supporter of alternative methods of healing. She even prescribes probiotics for my IBS symptoms. I also found an excellent chiropractor out here. I am recovering from the stress effects, just in time for my Soldier to redeploy this fall. I hope being in a larger community I can find more resources to help manage the stress this time so I don't have the same physical problems. I'll let you know!

Good information from everyone, I just wanted to say 'thank you'. 

If you have any tips on how you found and chose the progressive MD (who's 'got' the idea about probiotics at least), naturopathy, chiropractor, ssfamily, that would be nice to hear... The Forums area also has an area about to get my focus related to providers who 'get it' and how to find them (and in my own community/area I'll actually be providing contact information about them).  Here's a link to that section of the Forums if you're interested -- it's been there for a while but we haven't focused on it so it's basically empty, though that's what I'm working on this weekend a bit.  (And made a lot of phone calls and emails about this week.). 

So now that you've said 'Seattle', I think of you as 'sleepless in Seattle' but I hope you're not having that component of fibromyalgia or are managing it well.  Lovely place you moved to and how neat having a new adventure in life in a new community!  Thanks for being part of ours here, you've contributed a lot!  

AND WELCOME Dr. Lepisto -- SO GLAD YOU HOPPED IN (and provided the link for the interview and some feedback!)

Mardy

Actually Mardy, I do have some sleepless nights, but it isn't too bad. I try to get plenty of fresh air, eat healthfully and exercise as much as I can, which on some days is not much, but any little bit of movement helps.

On the MD, Chiropractor front, I just got lucky out here. Our health insurance is through Group Health and their provider listing has information about the MDs. I selected one that mentioned her preference of using alternative therapies, and we worked well together immediately. I went to my first appointment armed with my full health history, recent medications and supplements, dietary sensitivities, and most recent test results. I was very upfront about what I've done or tried that worked and what didn't. I'm open to new ideas, but refuse to go back to something that I know doesn't work for me. I am happy that she listens to me, and she is happy that I am in tune with my body and pay attention to what's going on in and around it.

As far as the local Chiropractor, I just took a chance on the closest one to me that accepted my insurance and got extremely lucky with my first pick. Some Chiropractors don't like me very much as I have been a chiropractic patient for over 20 years and worked for 2 different practices. I know what works on my body, and what techniques I prefer, and I don't hesitate to say so. In Nebraska it was just serendipity. My daughter came home with a new friend one day who lived around the block from us. The new friend had a father who is a Chiropractor. I met him and decided to check out his office and was very pleased with the care I received. 

My hubby and I became friends with the DC and his wife, they are very wonderful healing people. She was a Licensed Massage Therapist who had also graduated from a Naturopathy school. Nebraska did not license Naturopaths at the time, so she was unable to practice, but didn't mind me bouncing ideas off of her. I love finding healing friends!

My Nebraska Chiropractor is now practicing in the Kansas City, KS area. His wife went to UNL Nursing School and obtained her BSN. I still go get adjusted by him whenever I am in Kansas, which is more often than you might think as my Soldier is based out of Kansas and I travel out there regularly to see the grandchildren. Do you have a section for travel tips?

If anyone is interested in the names of the excellent providers I see or have seen, let me know, I'd be happy to refer to them. I'll try to remember to also head over to the provider area and give you my input on what I look for with a new provider and how I don't mind asking for a new provider when I don't see eye to eye with the one I've seen. I've learned over the years that I am in charge of my body and my health, and it is up to me to educate myself and expect the care I deserve.