This is an excellent article to read from an experienced and thoughtful psychiatrist who has been using the various tools of the trade --- and I appreciated having found it and the helpfulness of explanations of the old terms and new terms for the same thing.  This actually came up for me when using the Search words "Type A" with these other words such as pyroluria, methylation and etc.  

www.balancingbrainchemistry.co.uk/40/histapenia-histadelia-under-methylation-Pyroluria.html

Live and Learn. Learn and Live Better! ~ Mardy

Health and wellness coach Pam Kileen is yet another gem I found by digging around where I might find a good 'root'... the One Radio Network website.  A 2010 interview by the wonderful interviewer Patrick Timponi with Author Pam Killeen about addictions branched out into all kinds of information -- dental / tooth loss and how difficult it is to restore bone growth once it's damaged from improper diet for that person's needs, for instance --  allowed me to see the breadth of her knowledge and she was just 'point on' with what I believe to be the information to be getting into our heads and wrapping our heads around!

So I really wanted to add her to the Lumigrate topic about addictions so our YOUsers are aware of her consulting services, other books, website resources, etc.  

Here's the link to the ORN topic where I 'discovered her'.  And below it will be the written information there so you see what they had to say about Pam there.   This became a TWO PART interview, so it's 2 hours (plus has their commercials which are very informative and easy to listen to, I think).  I thought it was well worth BOTH hours and hope you find it to be so as well.  

oneradionetwork.com/health/from-the-archives-pam-killeen-addictionthe-hidden-epidemic-september-15-2010/

Author of Addiction: The Hidden Epidemic: Common Sense Solutions for our #1 Health Problem

In the book, Pam writes about Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World and how almost everyone today is sedated into compliance through various drugs, especially the legal ones! Addiction and mood disorders are the proverbial “elephant in the room.” People don’t like to talk about them.

Since substance abuse is our #1 health problem, it’s crucial to start talking about it so that we can find effective ways to resolve this problem.

Pams’ book includes interviews with some very progressive therapists who are using nutritional protocols, along with psycho-spiritual approaches, to help cure both mood disorders and addiction.

Pam Killeen is the co-author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Great Bird Flu Hoax (2006) and author of Addiction: The Hidden Epidemic (2010)

Website: http://pamkilleen.com/

Unfortunately they didn't do an overview of what's included at the interview and this will require my time to come back and listen to the interview and do the overview and transcribe the parts that I think are the most relevant for Lumigrate YOUsers to be able to look over, refer back to, etc. 

After calling Pam's number, she returned my call very promptly and we had a very good conversation.  She's such a great fit for Lumigrate YOUsers -- she expects people to show up 7 days a week, 365 days a year and get through all the information she has to teach them and has a contract formalizing things and she says turns several people away every week because they aren't a fit for her method.  I tell people all the time my method is not for everyone but for those who it appeals to, and we work together, we get results.  Always. (To whatever extent we do is largely up to their efforts, naturally, I hope I bring my A game all the time.) 

So this is worth sharing here, the followup she sent me: 

Hello Mardy, It was nice speaking with you today. You might be interested in going through some of the following links:

1) http://www.liveto110.com/78-heal-adrenal-fatigue-pam-killeen/

2) Scroll down to hear this one too -- http://michealhilton.com/how-to-kick-start-your-vitality-and-happiness/

3) Here is an interview I've done about the Five Prongs of my program, Nutritional Balancing -- http://www.pamkilleen.com/app/download/7175343604/FiveProngsPamKilleen.mp3

4) Here is an article I've written about the nutritional aspects of my program -- http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/nutritional-balancing-basics/

5) Here's my YouTube seminar, How To Fix a Broken Brain -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viwlh9o2VPk

Keep up the great work!
Best,
Pam

Transcription of the first of the two-part interview (general transcription/overview as much as I could catch and also simplify it for reading). THIS IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION SO CHECK BACK UNTIL THIS IS GONE AND UNTIL THEN KNOW THAT THIS IS YET TO BE COMPLETED AND certainly GO LISTEN to the PODCASTS.  It's a very easy interview to listen to. Naturally, they're here to really focus on the book that was new in 2010 (there's another new one out new in Kindle (and other devices can download Kindle important to note) about addictions more focused away from things such as drugs and alcohol, such as sex).  The book this interview is focused on is

Addiction: The Hidden Epidemic. 

Pam talks about how Aldous Huxley wrote about addiction.  He experimented with drugs to see where the mind will go, he believed in the use of drugs but only under supervision.  Timothy Leary endorsed the use of drugs for experimental use.  Detrimental side effects come from all drugs, she said -- they stunt man, they don't help man 'grow'.  A lot of people studied Timothy Leary's work and believed Aldous Huxley was in the same camp, which isn't the case.  

Once you get a 'hit' of something and your brain likes it .... 

Is there more addiction now than before? We have more things to become addicted to, today.  Thousands of drugs on the market, for one thing (which is just the drug facet of addiction) and then also  we have a pro-addiction diet.  We see huge rates of depression, and depression is one of the leading causes of addiction.  So other activities or drugs are turned to in order to make people feel better.  Since we're talking about mood disorders and addictions  .... it's like the elephant in the room. 

This generation of children is very much at risk.  

Patrick asks about how many people are with addiction problem.  In the US and Canada she states it's about 10% that are struggling with addiction to drugs.  Due to the other addictions, such as 2 million in the US with gambling addiction, she cites, it's very problematic to our society. 

People she's working with who are taking a biochemical approach to addiction, so when a person with addiction comes to them they test for neurotransmitter deficits, for heavy metal deficiency, thyroid disorder, adrenal, blood sugar problems .......

Once you identify these deficiencies and problems, you can go in and treat them. The addictions are minimized or disappear. 

They're doing the standard psycho-social and spiritual in these treatment programs too, but talk therapy alone does not work, and there are cravings going on, so this brings in the biochemical and is more effective.  

It's also a blood sugar issue, Patrick says.  She says it's particularly the case where alcoholism is concerned.  Patrick says how low the number seems, 10% for drug addiction (which includes alcohol).  (I agree!)

What the therapists in her book do to see fastest results is amino acids therapy.  They can target the neurotransmitters that are depleted, then you can give them the correct amino acids to

Example: Triptophan is an amino acid that feeds the neurotransmitter serotonin.  Serotonin is a feel-good neurotransmitter. With depletion, you'll feel depleted about life, sad and no robustness of life.  You might gravitate to a substance to superficially boost the serotnonin but your body will then rely on that substance to make yourself feel better.  Alcohol is asked about.... 

GABA neurotransmitter in the brain has to do with sleep and gets messed up, and that has to do with sleep. 

It's a very comprehensive approach.  They sit down and have three square meals a day in order to regulate blood sugar.  Historically when we were eating 3 square meals a day we were healthier.  And some people today don't even know what a 'square meal' is.  

Before WW2, it was before the marketing people and scientists came in and scared us about fats or etc., and then in the 1970s it was really getting more common and that's when more of these mood disorders started.

70% of people don't even seek care for depression and it's not all 'stigma' it's that the people don't want to take the things that are offered from conventional treatment.  A lot of these people have to turn to something to feel better so they self-medicate.

Westin A. Price Foundation is talked about, and the fats ... our brains need certain fatty acids and these are found in animal foods.  We evolved eating animal foods.  If we just ate plant foods we'd still be monkeys and gorillas, so to get our brains to develop to where we are today we had to eat animal foods.  

The healthiest people he saw were eating fish and shellfish.  DHEA is critical for the construction of your cell membranes.  So getting the fatty acids make the cell membranes structurally sound.  The problems occur with the weakened membranes of the cells.  

Grass fed chickens and beef and buffalo and lamb... as we migrated inland, and we also started eating wild game because it was high in these crucial fatty acids.  When you take these animals and factory farm them instead of being wild then that changes the fatty acids they have.

They customized their own science... the marketing-based science is discussed relative to the way products were marketed to the public like hydrogenated fats, margerines.  100 years ago we'd eat about 18 pounds of butter a year, and today we're eating 5 pounds of butter a year. The displacement of these good fats. To have shelf stability for products ... they're not in their for our health, they're profitable, they're shelf-stable.   

Zinc deficiency is not pretty, it is not something you want, and it's very difficult to correct it without eating meat. Zinc is crucial for neurotransmitter creation

Zinc deficiency will affect digestion

She puts people on supplements for 3 to 6 months depending upon how sick they are, it restores things by bringing the biochemistry back into things. Get the diet corrected .. "I want them to use food".... and then they don't need supplements anymore.  

Protein is made of amino acids. If you don't have enough zinc in your diet you won't produce enough hydrochloric acid.  Salt is crucial for producing hydrochloric acid.  So if you're eating enough protein --- through three square meals -- complete protein from animal sources -- you'll have enough amino acids to target the neurotransmitters.  You'll have enought fuel for the fire, so to speak. 

The salt phobia is discussed (similar to we'd been lead to fear fat at other times, etc.)

Highly processed salt such as what's on the tables at restaurants, like Mortons brand, is sodium chloride and it will throw off your potasium and other things. 

Proper / good/ real  sea salt will have 80 minerals in it. 

You don't want to stay on hydrochloric acid ongoing, but you might need it to start to absorb amino acids -- which leads to better neurotransmitter production and then sleep, like Patrick saw as a result of taking it.  "It's a chain of events" Pam says.  

She talks about how she used to believe everything contrary to the establishment at first.  Then you do some digging and you see you weren't getting the whole story.  She spent years digging and traveling and interviewing people who get REAL results .... 'we can't afford to ignore them'.  It's a lot of work to get well.   By the time they come to her, they've spent so much money and time on other things, they're ready to work and get results. 

She teaches 30 hours of classes to get people to understand the fundamental diet information. 

Because of the systems we have learned from, they're looking often for a 'silver bullet', like a pill (whether supplement or medication) and that's just not how it happens.  

Society is constantly trying to get us addicted to something --- cell phones, video games, sex, drugs, rock and roll.  Addiction is "customers for life", Pam says.  So the more we turn to substances, the easier we are to control.  In South America the coca plant is still used to control workers.  

Caffeine can cause depression and anxiety; it depletes the body of B vitamins of neurotransmitters, it is in the literature.  And the mental health providers inside the box/system are not getting their patients off of caffeine. 

"Marketing-based science" (instead of evidence-based science) -- if you're a healthy person and your adrenal glands are healthy, you can have some coffee without bad effects. But if you're having depression or fatigue then you'll not want to.  It's really great if you have an exam or something, but shouldn't be used on a regular basis.   

Coffee is a stimulant. If you wake up and, to get the "brain fog out", you're feeling that way because you stressed your adrenal glands the day before and if that was from caffeine then you're, in essence, in withdrawal.  It may make you grumpy and irritable.  You might not sleep well.  80 (or 85) % of the population is using caffeine on a daily basis.  It can have serious consequences when it comes to your mood and sleep.  

Headaches can be from withdrawal too, and from caffeine use. 

Patrick said he, like anyone, can go down the garden path with addictions and mentions 'addictive 'personality'', but he likes to pay attention to a spiritual approach. He says that if he feels he 'needs' to have caffeine that is when he WON'T do it, but to have some as a treat with some cacao as they do in one of his groups, he has it then.   

Pam answers that since the dawn of civilization, we've been curious and drawn to experimenting or to seek out pleasure. Now it's become an epidemic and it's crippling society.  It's 1/2 a trillion $s a year in the US economy .. health care, productivity, all things associated with substance abuse.  In the health freedom world where you and I work ... we think it's all about cancer, heart disease and diabetes and it's ultimately also addiction.  

Having 3-4 Starbucks a day just to get through the day was used as an example. When we started drinking coffee in the Western world, such as during the industrial revolution, we'd have had a small cup 1-2 x a day.  Pam had heard that certain coffee chains increase the nicotine in the coffee they serve... (yes, nicotine, I didn't mistype that! She said a 'little birdie' had told her that once and she'd not looked into it though). 16 oz cups of coffee people having now ... and it's really devastating to the immune system. 

Clear cut coffee plantations in South America are very problematic.  Coffee was meant to grow in the shade, not the sun.  

The other reason she wrote Addiction: The Hidden Epidemic is that we already have a huge problem and now this new generation is very much at risk for addictions --- they're addicted to carbohydrates, loading up on caffeine .. the % that are going to be diagnosed with a mental disorder of some sort is 20%. (NOTE, that is going to be that have sought or gotten a diagnosis which is way less than what would be found if you randomly sampled and appropriately screened/tested/diagnosed). 

Patrick talks about 8 year olds having a cell phone. She talks about the materialistic society we have now.  Limited media in old days went to an explosion of media, and it has taken away from close contact and times with friends and family. 

For our little ones, they have to start out the mornings stabilizing their blood sugar.  Bacon and eggs -- don't be afraid of that.  High quality animal protein, don't be afraid of animal fat. Sourdough bread if you want, because it's more easily digested in the digestive track.  Butter is good, slap it on, she says.  

A lot of nutritional deficiencies happen at lunch, the kids might not get complete proteins and animal fats.  Make a roast on Sunday and use that on the sandwich so they're getting a good amount of animal protein.  Whole milk adds in extra nutrients, even though they've done such a good job of demonizing dairy -- "I was mislead on that one in the past too", she says.  

On her website, she has links to articles that describe meal plans. 

End of interview hour 1, now onto hour 2 ---- they continue ..... 

Patrick directs the conversation to talk about rows of patented medicines you'll find walking into a drug store, and asks about addiction with them ... in some it's a psycyological addiction for it to have a power over our health, or with vaccines thinking it has this power over our immune system when in fact it is a flawed science.  What they have is better than nature is what they promote, and what they've done over the last 50 or 60 years.  

After the second world war the chemical companies came into power .. pesticides, pharmaceutical industry.  Thos entities were the sign of 'progress' and if we rejected them it was rejecting progress.  But people are now seeing things differently as we're seeing that we're seeing we're sicker now than when these things appeared on the marketplace.   "Living better through chemistry" or science was a saying that was put out by marketing people that Patrick makes reference to. 

Sherylynne called in from Toronto to comment and offer a little story that proves everything that Pam's saying is absolutely correct.  She'd become a vegetarian and remained one for 13 years and really harmed her health and that of her children.  She'd become vegetarian two years before her first child was born. She became a carbotarian she called it, and gained a lot of weight.  She also ruined her teeth -- she had very good oral health before that, her first cavity at 15, a total of 5 in her whole life to this time and being a vegetarian whe thought put it over the edge, she got severe gum disease.  She had thyroid issues, etc.   Chronic infections in her gums, bone problems and now is having teeth extracted, unfortunately (five so far). She'd  referred to having straight, pearly white teeth before, and how Westin A Price would have been very pleased by her teeth. 

Pam says that when she works with 'recovering vegetarians', doing hair analysis, you can see the body is not right with copper balance.  She'd interjected that Sherylynn's symptoms indicated copper toxicity.  It's reversible fortunately and then the gums heal and the bones heal, Pam said.  

Copper toxicity is elaborated upon by Pam: The body's not using the copper, it'll be in the hair, it becomes such a toxic level in the body that to save the body, the body starts storing it in the tissues and you don't use it -- you'll see the bleeding gums bone degeneration, aches and arthritic pains, Pam teaches those listening.  She uses the hair analysis and then supplements (initially) to remove the copper and doesn't use EDTA chelation therapy in her approach to rectify issues, as she believes it can be very dangerous, but rather uses the opposite / "antagonistic" minerals to push out the metals that are in excess and bring the ratios where they need to be.  

Another student of Dr Westin A Price was another dentist, Dr Melvin Page, who confirmed Dr Price's research, and then saw that as we displaced the nutrient-dense animal foods and started eating more of the processed foods, what was seen was a change in the calcium - phosphorus ratio. And he and other dentists have seen that you do get this degeneration in the teeth when the calcium/phosphorus ratios change, and that happens very commonly, especially with vegetarians and vegans.  

Without copper being available you can't take the calcium into the bone,  it's a synergy of things that goes on. With the balance of the calcium and and phosphorus being off even after going back to animal foods it can be "many many years" to get things rebalanced correctly, and she does hair analysis to see where people are at with things. 

Copper antagonists include things like zinc.  Someone can try to balance their copper or bring it down by taking zinc, but it's very tricky and there's more than meets the eye.  She uses supplements that are very targeted and specific. (Mardy's note: When I spoke with Pam by phone I emphasized that this is one area I really insist people get someone on their team to help guide them. A lot of nutrition things people can learn on their own if they put in the time but this stuff is very complicated and can wreak havoc if not done properly.) 

Sherylynne talks about how difficult it is to turn things around with advanced gum disease, and she was using pulsed electric frequencies to try to get the bone building and has a good holistic dentist.  Once you have 14 mm pocketing and recession, and food getting into the pockets it's very difficult to get things turned around. (Mardy's note, I thought about the EMF-educators who have noticed that ALS appears to them to have a connection with electromagnetics, and reflected on just how much there is to research when a person gets into a complex medical situation such as Sherylynn has with her oral health problems). 

Pam suggested high vitamin butter oil mixed with cod liver oil; Westin A Price would see the bones build back when people used this. Eating lots of butter was also a suggestion of Pam's.  Patrick asks about fermented cod liver oil, but sometimes the cost is high, Pam said and it's good to just do the best you can with the funds you have. The caller was doing so much but was reminded by the high vitamin butter oil. 

Your mouth is the window to the body, Pam reminds and goes into the history when Dr Westin A. Price started seeing the degeneration of the oral cavity in the 1920s, he'd treated their parents of these children and they had wonderful dental health and then in one generation they were seeing crooked teeth, narrowing of the jaw, and cavities and so he started looking at primitive tribes and villages and would take pictures of their smiles and then correlate this with their physical and mental health by living with them for weeks.  

They enjoyed wonderful health and few signs of cavities when they were primitive tribes out further from where transportation pathways were for goods.  Then those tribes you'd see the physical degeneration in these more 'westernized' regions of the world.  Now, it's exaggerated beyond belief.  Chronic disease is how most people in the US die.  The more we spend on health care, the sicker people are.

We have this illusion out there that someone else is going to take care of us, and in reality they make profit on us.  The more we become ill (fatigued, depressed), the more dependent we become on the government.  We have to have enough energy and clarity to object to things we might object to in the government or industry so we can progress as a society. And do it rationally.  Now we're going backwards as a civilization (this was a 2010 interview, I remind YOUsers reading this, the momentum is very different in 2015 from my vantage point!).  

Patrick talks about the confusion, the fright, the fatigue that so many people have and they can't get there.  They're angry or brain fogged or brain starved, Pam says, they're angry and anxious and they want to express their anger and they do it in a very inappropriate way. She sees that very commonly, as well.   

So she was glad to see people objecting to G20 when in Canada, but they'd get more progress if they were more savvy in their approaches.  Though the media is very good at sensoring what they cover, she realizes.  

She does things (activism, education) through a very rational, cogent manner and wants to focus on the solution not the problem.  Because it's very difficult for people when it's all fear-based things they're having exposure to.  (She uses radio interviews as an example of her activism.) 

Then they have a good laugh about if they're going to do another bird flu scare that upcoming fall. There are three investigations going on around the swine flu hoax.  One was out of Britain, and it pointed out the conflict of interest in those that were working on the projects.  

She said they have vaccines in the works for cocaine abuse, for laziness -- "they'll create anything they can to make a fast buck."  All the money that goes into vaccine development means they have to sell a lot of the product.  (Mardy's note, please refer to our vaccine thread at Lumigrate, search at the search bar on vaccine plan, vaccine rights, vaccine injury, vaccination animals, dogs, cats, we talk about it all!)

They have to mass market it, they don't keep someone on it for life like with pills, they only do it once ... this is marketed to the public as well through very official looking organizations they create that are part of it. Public health organizations are now involved heavily.  And she doesn't think anyone who goes into public health did it to be helping the vaccine industry.  The industry is scrambling to try to please their shareholders. 

They talk about how few people went to get the last vaccine the programs were trying to get people roped into running out to get it (again, this is a 2010 interview, so that was H1N1, I believe).  Very transparent, very wicked marketing plans is what she says they'll have up their sleeves. Patrick talked about how they'll come up with some outbreak that occurs on an airplane or something like that as an example of the setups they come up with. 

It's a very sophisticated marketing plan they had for the bird flu that she wrote about in the book she co-authored about flu/ vaccines.  Paul for Profit Offit (sp?) is someone that promoted the swine flu 'pandemic', she brings up.  

Patrick talks about a radio show he was hearing where they very calmly said 'it's the start of school, time to get your vaccines'...  

If you really look at the research, it shows that these vaccines are not working.

She refers to a man from Canada she thinks Patrick should have on, name sounds like "Ship-shope-rah", who used to work for Health Canada, and one of his jobs was to work on the vaccines project to approve them, and his book is goign to be about if people need them at all so he's very credible and hopefully people are reading some of the critical voices like  Tenpenny, Mercola, and Barbara Lowe Fisher from the NVIC - National Vaccine Information Center, who has looked into things and are getting the information out. 

We now had filtered and clorinated water, and knew to wash our hands and etc., that's what helped drop the infectious diseases.. We have sanitation and hygiene measures in place.  But when infectious disease went down, the vaccine industry took credit for it, but it was because we had better sanitation and hygiene.  

Many of the illnesses were almost gone already before the vaccines for them hit the market, she said. Dying of an infectious disease today is about 6.7% of the population (in the US). 

It's a real 'bowl of soup' that they put in vaccines, Pam describes it as.  Formaldehyde, mercury. How can these ingredients replace your immune system?  If your mucosal lining or lining of your gut isn't strong, it will wreak havoc on your body .. the vaccine is putting a protein into your blood stream, so we need to do things  that will affect your ability to fight things off, the vaccine doesn't support helping that.

So eat kephir and yogurt, or take probiotics, but she likes to endorse formented foods.  Cheap medicine to make your own.  70 or even up to 80% of the immune system is the actual gut lining.  Dr Shopra's next book she thinks will be a huge threat to the vaccine industry.  shipchopra.com she said was his website.

The paradigm about vaccines just doesn't make sense Patrick said.   

He then does a very nice station break where he talks about the funding of OneRadioNetwork without 'pushy', and he talks about how it's all a big picture thing and works out so if you can't donate, no worries. Then gets back to talking about Pam Killeen .... an email from a woman with adrenal exhaustion. What foods to eat and not was the question. 

Cod liver oil and butter are two of the best to support the adrenal glands, and to get the brain getting enough protein to get the glands and brain. (Mardy's Note, adding onto the bottom, below, about cod liver oil from Price-Pottinger Nutrition Foundation's August 2015 article about cod liver oil, from a historical perspective). 

The foundation is three square meals a day, having nutrient dense meals.  Amazing what happens with fatigue and depression when you start eating this way. Where some people have adrenal exhaustion, they might need a little more.

The most critical thing is first thing in the morning is stabilize the blood sugar and support the adrenal glands, lace the sourdough bread with butter if you want bread and can handle the carbohydrates, and have bacon and eggs .. don't be fat phobic.

Your sleep schedule is usually off with these individuals, with serious insomnia -- she didn't sleep for 12 years when she had chronic fatigue.  And every five waking hours you should have a main meal, and a high animal fat and protein snack in between if you have adrenal fatigue.  Having some fruits and vegetables is okay with every meal if you're eating wholesome meals.  

She's not a huge fan of juicing but that's a whole other subject Pam said.  People with adrenal problems has to be careful with the sugars from juicing, so probably dont' want to do any kind of juicing. It's a lot of sugar in juices, which is hard on the blood sugar (and hence adrenals). 

She recommends to all her students and everyone that they read the book Life Without Bread by Dr Wolfgang Lutz, who was a genius in her mind and had a clinical practice for 40 years as an MD, and if he had people limit themselves to carbohydrates to 72 grams a day is when he saw them having their best results.  She suggests not getting to fixated on counting and formulas, but to do it for a couple of days and get an overall idea of how many grams you're consuming and adjust from there. 

Fasting blood sugar of 85 or below is something Patrick asked about, and Pam said she finds it's difficult to test for blood sugar.  The clinicians in her book would use a five hour glucose tolerance test but the people can get into delirium, angry, dizzy because they're so compromised biochemically (if they're severely hypoglycemic).  She does hair analysis and can see if someone's having trouble digesting carbohydrates  just strictly from looking at minerals and the ratios in the body.  

Patrick reveals he was confused about copper in the hair and how you interpret it -- it's the ratios he and she say/confirm.  

She talks about the MD she consults with on all her cases she takes who has tested on 15,000 people the way they interpret the hair analysis that she is a proponent of.  You can look at the results and see what is hidden in the body.  The lab that is used is ARL -- Analytical Research Lab in Arizona, which is Dr Paul Ekk, (Sp) who studied the work of Dr Hans Selye, who did the foremost research on the adrenal gland.  Dr Ekk was able to figure out the ratios that one of the major things for the adrenal glands is to keep minerals in balance.  So when you start studying his work you realize it's really VERY simple.  

Patrick summarizes, questioningly as if he's not sure he has it right in his mind yet: The adrenal fatigue folks get into problems with depression because the mineral balance is one of the jobs of the adrenals. Pam says "Right, and second to that is that your heavy metals do not get eliminated properly, so where you see autism or chronic fatigue which is also called adult autism .. so I know what autism feels like after the many years I had chronic fatigue.  

So what happens is the adrenals become very weak and they're responsible for dumping heavy metals into the bile, so digestion is very important.  If your adrenals are weak you'll hold onto heavy metals rather than eliminate them.  

Next question is how can we have so many different opinions on how to eat/what is the best diet?

Pam was one of the first people in Toronto to teach how to do wheat grass and sprouts ... and juicing and studied under Ann Wigmore, the grandmother of that movement, and went to the Boston clinci she had before she died, and Pam was a diehard vegan and also went to California to study with Optimum Health Institute, twice, so she really believed in a raw food, vegan diet.

 "It's hard to summarize in a telephone call (interview) but I can tell you that everyone I started a raw food vegan diet with is no longer a vegan, they all developed very serious health problems from that diet. If you look at the work of Marilyn Diamond and her now ex-husband Harvey Diamond who wrote Fit for Life and promoted natural hygiene, they are not longer raw food vegans.  If you look at (another expert I didn't catch the name of to transcribe, Herbert someone I think she said) who was also a founding father of raw food vegan, he went on record to say at home he was not a vegan he ate animal foods." 

Patrick refers to people who promote eating raw animal foods, and Pam says that she knew whose work that is and Patrick said he's a frequent guest on this show, and he said how he likes almost raw meat.  Patrick asks Pam if it's easier to digest than cooked meat and Pam laughs a bit nervously and responded that when you 'gently heat meat', a piece of steak for instance, you soften the proteins and make them then more digestible.  The second effect of eating gently heated meat is that you release more endorphins in the brain because it tastes better and you like it better, and she LAUGHS.... 

Question about a 50 year young woman who was thinking of looking into raw food education to become that professionally.  Westin A Price Foundation dot org is where she suggests people look as people all over teach the concepts; Pam teaches once a year in Toronto.  There are books to become educated through as well, and Pam puts things on her website that she thinks people should look into. She believes in the three square meals now. 

Long term the raw food vegan causes problems but short term there appears to be good results.  All the staff where she went to learn about raw food vegan did NOT follow the diet. It's okay for a week or two weeks but you don't want to stay on it. 

Looking multigenerational is the only way to assess a diet.  Are the babies healthy? Are they fertile (when older), are they mentally healthy kids, are they aging gracefully, so you have to look at many many generations to determine if a diet is healthy.  And when Dr Westin A. Price set out to examine the diets of healthy cultures, he was really hoping he would find a vegan culture that was healthy and he didn't find one.  

But aren't WAP advocates risking putting their eggs in one basket? What if he just made it up? (Patrick asks)

Pam responds: He documented it pretty thoroughly. And also if you look at Sir Robert McHarison and  Robert Stephenson..... not sure if I got those names right) back up the work of Westin A Price.  She writes about them in her book.  

What about the gluten thing?  Patrick said he'd love to eat a piece of sourdough bread but "I'd not poop for about a week" he said.  The gluten thing is tough, he said.  He grew up on pasta and can't eat it now.  

To be continued... 

Agriculture was invented after the last ice age which ended 12,500 years ago, we ate a lot of animal foods, and when we then displaced animal foods for plant based foods.  When we started agriculture you started seeing degneration in the human body.  We shrunk about 6 inches, our brains shrunk, and life span went from 26 years to 19 years -- that happened at the advent of agriculture.  Dr Jarod Diamond documents this and calls agriculture the worst mistake man has made.  Nutrient dense foods were changed. 

Cookies, crackers, bread occurred before the 1800s.  Then in the 1800s, the canning industry occurred. The end of the 1800s you see cracker jack, coca cola, pepsi, condensed milk, a version of margarine was coming up.  1909 was when they invented hydrogenation.  Catapulting from bad to worse, and these nutrient deficient foods was occurring.  

An influx of immigration into the United States cause a problem as the beef industry didn't have enough meat to feed them, so wheat started replacing meat. With  more time and rationing that occured, and then 'the food guide' being around the first world war, and then it progresses  .. ... and 

The less nutritious foods are in the bottom of that now where we are told to eat more of them, and they're less nutrient dense.  Not to say we shouldn't eat them at all, just not in high quantities.  

What we learned is that wheat needs to be soaked and fermented before we use it.  So to  use a quick-rising yeast has created this rather than fermenting the dough.  Some celiacs can tolerate sourdough bread.  Even things like schizophrenia can be reduced or eliminated 

When people have really poor digestion, gluten can be very difficult to digest, even possibly in the form of a sourdough bread.  What people are feeding the animals is what Patrick brings up next.  Pam says it's important to do sustainable agriculture and for people to go to local farms and look at what their practices are.  Lots of people don't have the wherewithall to do all that.  So just do the best you can.  Some chickens get GMO soy fed to them, and she said she gets her milk which is half milk and half cream so she gets all the fat, so it's wonderful.  

A man in Bird In Hand, Pennsylvania Patrick brings up and then Pam cautions him to not say the man's name on the radio because of regulations (and so I did not add the name here but he had said it).  It's safe to eat organ meat raw if it's good quality but there's a way to take organ meat and make a smoothie with tomato juice and spices -- she said it gives a lot of energy.  

Life Without Bread by Wolfgang Lutz is recommended by Pam again.  Carbs are physiologically addictive without question.  They both talk about the Wheaties Patrick was hooked on as a kid and she was raised on sugar she said and told more tales of her upbringing and past diet that she could not eat today.  If you are eating some cereals remember to get some high quality protein in there as well, sausage, eggs, some turkey.  Yogurt if it's high fat is a good breakfast.  You never want to to do low fat, ever, Pam said. 

Lactose intolerance is only about 4% of the population but people become intolerant to dairy from the pasteurization, particularly improvements come from doing raw and if it's fermented.  

He says how she was a blast as they take off and give the information to get people to her website as they head off.  "I love you all very much, it's an honor to be here with you all (listeners), my name is Patrick Timoni." he says in closing. 

And I love YOUsers of Lumigrate so much, I've spent the time to type out the overview/ overall of what was said on this very informative and easy to listen to interview so YOU can READ / refer back and hopefully make CHANGE in your health and that of your family. 

Live and Learn. Learn and Live Better! ~ Mardy

Note, I often dedicate my day of work to someone.  On the first Thursday of March in 1987 my mother passed suddenly and unexpectedly and her funeral was early the next week.  One of my friends' mothers just passed a week ago of the same basic thing and the memorial service is this weekend.  

I have thought so much about the woman who had her family, per my friend, eating wheat germ and taking cod liver oil as I transcribed this, above.  And I thought about how we were lead astray a lot as well, but overall we can now look at the relative wellness from their generation to ours and then to the next generation which would be the grandchildren today.  I am very concerned about the children growing up today, their brains and the rest of their bodies and their wellness.  

Both of our mothers were educators in the same public school system yet didn't know each other at all as they were in different schools and teaching different things.  I hope that Lumigrate (and I when communicating directly with people) is/are serving to help educate people in a way that translates into what our youngest generation needs going forward.  And everyone else too, naturally.  

Having Pam expect two years as a commitment from her students was inspiring to me! I hope YOU enjoyed this and I hope YOU consider becoming a student of hers if you've liked what is here, buying her NEW book about addiction that's more about sex addiction, or the book she was talking up in 2010 that was new then about overall addiction focused on alcohol a and sex addiction.  The question Patrick asked about all the eggs in basket about following Westin A Price resonated for me because I had that concern putting it on Lumigrate but I've stood by in for years now and I find every day that I'm more confident in it than ever.  May YOU be as well, and in what I bring your way on topics at Lumigrate dot com! ~ Gratefully ~ Mardy