Ayurveda – the distinctive medicine

Draft begun 20th March 2022, continued 21 March, 25 March (added photos, completed portion about Carl).

Mold -- Carl Grimes and Scott Armour                        

                             Carl Grimes 2008                                         ........................................................................                                                                                                         Scott Armour 2013

Setting the Stage

Carl Grimes and Scott Armour live in Colorado and Ohio, respectively, and I've gotten to know them over the years on Facebook through groups specific to the mold aspect of environmental wellness or illness. 

I had cause, recently, to return to a focus on mold for me, personally.  Naturally, when my health symptoms in began in the 1960s, in infancy, "mold" was not a known contributor, in most circles. It wasn't until Facebook's influence that I went from "aware" (one mention by a chiropractor in conversation, mid-2000's) to "partially educated". What helped me not get too sucked into the "mold fold" on Facebook was knowing I'd achieved high levels of wellness in the past, for periods of time, without anyone mentioning "mold".  

After a long stretch (2018 to early 2022) without clear symptoms from mold exposure, I was invited to go into a home to assist the owner (needed help cleaning), and would "notice" a lot of sinus mucous as I was driving away and onto where I was going next.  It clearly was gathering dust from the air I'd breathed those three hours.   I'd plan to return in two week, for 1.5 hours.  My eyes really let me know they were unhappy.  I'd go directly to the shower and clean clothes, use nasal treatments, and purchase eye drops. 

Due to the priorities that first day, I'd not gone into the bathroom that initial visit, but when I returned two weeks later the bathroom part of what I'd be doing that day.  Black dots on the painted ceiling above where the showerer would be.  I'd look closely when I sprayed water from the handheld showerhead, because I know from experience there can be tiny breaches in the sealants around tubs and showers.  Indeed I found a few small areas I'd suspect had allowed water behind, down from there, collecting in the dark to form mold that then, I'd imagine, drifts up into the house in a number of ways. 

The unworking bathroom fan would allow the water from the shower to linger longer than it would otherwise, and provide the media, or fodder, for the mold to grow.  I'd not touch the moldy ceiling, instead, waiting to point it out to the owner when I next saw them.  I was still planning to return, until I could help them see the problem they have, and how to go about starting to learn and then remediate properly.  I didn't feel too badly after, so thought I was doing okay.  I felt good about being able to withstand an exposure like that.  

However, I'd perhaps be experiencing a symptom of mold that I believe I see in people with exposure and sensitivity: cognitive distortion.  If extreme cases of certain types of mold can contribute to symptoms like are thought to be involved with people long ago in Salem, Massechusettes, leading to "witch trials" and actions thereafter, perhaps a starter symptom might be thinking you're able to withstand a known toxin.  I'd have hesitation telling the owner I would rather not return.  I wanted assurance it would be wise for me to avoid the exposure. 

So I reached out to both Carl and Scott, in part to run my situation past them to validate if I was seeing things clearly (no eye pun intended, but the grit in my eyes and sore corneas was the primary symptom by the end of two weeks).  After connecting with them, I felt it was time to create a new topic on Lumigrate, if they'd participate with me.  They agreed, thankfully.  So here it is.  

End of "Setting the Stage"

Mold in My Feed (on Facebook)

I'd see Carl Grimes first on Facebook at this point with my "radar up".  He'd written an absolutely perfect comment to someone that would fit the situation I was in, precisely.  I'd message and ask if I could put it on my website, and explain the situation I just shared in the Stage-Setting, above.  

I've always preferred to provide at least two resources on subjects, so when I saw Scott Armour on Facebook on a thread, I'd message him next and inquire about his interest in being part of a new topic on my website, then ask if he knew of Carl.  They're in the same groove of thought, he basically said, yet in looking at their online information "abouts", are different in how they got into the field, as well as their education and other experiences for background.

From my standpoint, that is the best of both worlds! I prefer people be in the same basic realm, but provide slighly different points of view, in part because this helps the consumer understand we all are presented with a range of information and must decide what we think is information to take action with after doing "due diligence".  If you decide on a course of action and don't get the results you wanted, go back to the grindstone.  Try again.  Perseverence pays off, when it comes to environmental health issue solutions, and ironically it's possible that perseverative personality traits are a "symptom", or a "feature" within genetics that essentially load the gun for people to go forward and either be well with the genetics (and the gun never fires), or trip the trigger (and become unwell).  

Here's About Carl, in his own words from 3/21/2022 (where he responded to someone asking only for comments from people who got 100% recovered): 

"My response is to focus on one of the several aspects implied in your quest for 100% recovery. It is to be able to function effectively and productively in my life to achieve valued outcomes.

I was 80-90% disabled for 3 years and not able to work much more than part time for another 10 years. I was gradually able to work with thousands of people like you and others in this and similar groups.

 

(I'd) Serve on the committee that wrote the first mold remediation standard in 2003, modify the two national duct cleaning standards, update the water restoration standard in 2006, four medical practice parameters, a national position statement on damp buildings and molds 2011, the first position statement that applied health to HVAC design and construction in 2020.

 

Plus 13 years on the Board of IAQA, with 2 of those as President, then four years as VP.  Practice on the Board of the International Society of Indoor Air Quality and Climate. Currently Chairing one committee and Vice Chair of another in a national organization.

Plus full time director of healthy homes in a private company the past 8 years.

Getting to 85%-90% (most of the time) took 10 years of specifically focused effort. If I had devoted my life on that last 10% I might still be working on it. And not been able to accomplish a quarter of what I've done over the last 25 years.

My purpose in posting my story is to demonstrate that we don't need perfection in order to improve and achieve our capabilities.

I still have to avoid certain activities and places, toxic people, and take time off to recover when overly exposed and without enough rest.

It's not easy, but it is possible, with less than "immunity."   "

 My response/reply: 

Carl Grimes, I appreciate that you answered, and as you did, despite it being against the poster's request (for only if 100% recovery was reached). I had my initial lapse around the same time your health creashed, if I recall .... yours was 1989, mine was 1988.

 

I sought my "GP", as they were called in those days.  An MD, who, thankfully told me there was a bunch of whatever it is I had in my city at that time, so National Jewish in Denver had trained one ENT clinic in our city in what to look for and how to address it.  He suggested one of the 3 doctors merely because his accent was easier to understand, they were all from India. I'd worked from age 19 to 21 at Colorado State University's Department of Statistics, which had a lot of people from India, so I had developed skill at understanding their accent. But I asked for him anyway, when I called, since I had to pick one of three, but he was in India creating a clinic for a month.  So I went to another of the 2.

 

He missed the whole thing, as if he wasnt trained by National Jewish in Denver like my general practitioner doctor had said. I called and got on the other guy's schedule after having a rough time in the shower the morning after I took the first dose of medication the specialist had prescribed, having diagnosed me with "sinus headaches" (they were migraines), and prescribed a decongestant. I'd almost pass out in the shower, and see the network of vessels of some sort in my eyes, in the process -- it was like looking through gauze except in a pattern like blood vessels.  

 

I'd return and be waiting in the treatment room for the doctor who had just returned from India.  He walked in (having looked at my chart) and said "I think I know what you have, answer me one thing, the puffy eyes, is that new?" (Yes, was my response).

 

He explained what he thought, it's not current info, so I'll skip details except to say the treatment was to take a low dose of a medicine for the sluggish brain / thinking -- an antidepressant (before seratonin reuptake inhibitors the medications were for dopamine).  The bigger focus was on relating to me the importance to exercise up to the point of fizzling, but never ever go beyond.

 

He said "I know you wont feel like it, but its key".  He was right.  I couldn't imagine it, I felt so weak and wilty.  I had cut back the number of hours I worked at the office, to about half of what I did normally.  I worked from home (my husband had purchased a computer in 1985/6, thankfully).  The timing was good, we had a bit of a reprieve in the research publications and other work I was responsible for: the new addition on the CIRA building at the solar village research campus had been completed and our group had moved in and put together all the partitions, desks and other things I'd been in charge of procuring. 

 

A bookcase that had been new when moving into the freshly carpeted and painted addition was moved after I was recovering, and behind, where it outgasses, a rectangle of eggshell color stood out against the white elsewhere.  I'd wonder why I was the only one in a building with over 30 people to possibly get sick.  Could it be the building?  I was at a loss, and focused on the solution and not the cause (or contributors, I'd learn is preferable).  

 

Every day after I got done with getting groomed and dressed, to the office, back from the office, dinner, and cleanup (which I thankfully had a very helpful and supportive husband), I could not imaging going out into the warm evening and walking with him, as we used to do regularly after dinner. For weeks, I'd just rest as he walked.  Then one evening I felt like trying it.  

 

I went about 5 houses down the street and felt I could make it back okay, so turned back. I remember seeing my driveway, the gate, the patio -- feeling like I may just fall down before I got inside.  I reached the sliding patio screen door, went inside and literally threw myself in the recliner in that room.  I maybe went one house too far ..... 

 

After I sat for a minute, I felt inside, something indeed felt better! "This doctor was right!", I thought to myself.

 

I'd use that experience 20 years later, after I went back to university study, became an OT, and was working in outpatient therapy when people in town heard about my personal story from those I'd share it with who were referred to me for OT for various other things that required "starting low and going slow".

 

Yesterday, I drove by a building where an 18 y.o had gotten a job after we had our 2 months of therapy before she turned 18. Her plan when we met was to file for disability, her mother said in the evaluation. She had read online that exercise helps, but keep it low and go slow, so the 17 year old former athlete went for a two mile walk. At 17, 2 miles seemed a low goal to start.

 

We therefore started with "goals" versus "intentions". We learned about breathing and water/ hydration. Then we went to the gym, with new goals having different parameters than we are typically taught.

She was rewarded for stopping before the maximum time to be on a piece of equipment, same as when she got to that two minute mark on subsequent visit. I'd transition each patient like this to a select PT, who would pick up the exercise program from there, with the patient and the PT aware of how to go about things in this way, different than PT with robust people is done.

 

When she got the job offer at a call center, she revealed she needed to get up and walk around sometimes, and was allowed. 

 

As for me with my initial lapse, by 1991 was beyond 100% of my former level of function. Maybe my level of function was sub-par all along, and by 1991 I was at my peak, for the first time in my life. 

 

I maintained it for several years and was so incredibly busy, catching up for lost time.

I'd made it to 80% with what that ENT directed, and prescribed. That is considered "recovered", or was then, at least. 

 

Then a friend from my old office insisted I go to a D.C in town who specialized in  "what you have", and despite my dislike for him (knew him socially), I went. And was glad I did.

 

I was as compliant with his much more difficult and costly regimen of purchased pills and capsules, and he had every patient follow a very strict diet.  In those days, mainstream never brought THAT four letter word up (diet)."

---

 

Carl Grimes replied: "Stories like your are valuable. I hope others read it."  So I included it here. 

 

Continuing on, below is what I initially saw from Carl Grimes which resonated with me enough on a week I was struggling to see clearly I was affected by mold in a house I'd been to, and then once I "cleared" mentally and recognized it as serious and from there, that I couldn't return to that environment. Admitting deficiencies is, perhaps, made easier when you can attribute it to genetics, and hopefully it makes people receiving the news more likely to believe you.

While I'd be working to educate that home owner, hoping to inspire their seeking information on mold / environmental illness, I was met with resistant to the idea, as well. 

Carl's statement, below, addresses this situation so perfectly: 

"In 1987 Dr Henry Vyner wrote a book called Invisiblel Contaminants about how people react to harm that authorities can't see.  

He described the spectrum of behaviors ranging from denial to hyper-vigilence.  Denial is self explanatory, but hyper-vigilence was described as like a dog chasing it's tail -- always seeking, rarely stopping to even check to see if what they tried was helping or not.  Starting a new effort in the middle of several parallel efforts.  

The idea was what he called "vigilance" -- a deliberate, focused search for a cause among several possibilities, with a plan for evaluating outcomes.  

This requires a recognition of uncertainty, and an understanding that life is not absolute.  You can often get better, much better, but rarely "cured".  

His studies of personal events and public ones led him to the finding that both denial and hyper-vigilence increased the harm because it prevented, or at least delayed, stopping the exposure.  

BUT hypervigilence could often cause more harm than denial because it had the potential to introduce new harms in the wild attempt to find a quick fix.  

Victims -- individuals, all on their own -- typically went immediately to hyper-vigilence while authorities typically went to denial.  

This polarization made a reasoned approach less likely for success because the interaction between the two was either blocked or so distorted as to be unusable.  

I realize this doesn't directly solve anything, but when I read his book in 1989 in the middle of my own, disabling, illness from exposures that were invisible to all but myself, I found some strength and support in accepting that my loneliness and my fears were not unique to me.  

My exposures and my reactions had many unique characteristics, but my journey had been traveled before -- which meant I wasn't crazy or defective after all, and there was hope.  

As I write this, I wonder if the massively different and often contradictory advice posted by well-meaning individuals are another form of hyper-vigilence.  One where it's no longer the lone individual searching madly in the unexplored wilderness, but an entire social group reacting strongly against denial and unknowinly creating hypervigilence....? 

Just a thought .....

But if there is any truth to that possibility, I wonder how a group such as these on Facebook can better navigate the terrain between denial of "everything" and its opposite, of accepting and trying "everything" because "I heard" or "somebody said" or "the group agrees". "

Until you get the lesson, you will keep getting the teacher! I hope I have passed the test, this time.  And I hope I've brought good teachers to Lumigrate, in Carl and Scott, for those seeking solutions.  

End - Carl Grimes

Scott Armour

Scott Armour sent me some links for his Internet information.  I liked the profile information he has on Substack to start, here:

Dad, Consultant, Scientist.  

Specializing in Environmental Health Science, Industrial Hygiene, Infection Prevention, Environment Acquired Illness, Building Science, Mold Assessment, Sampling & Remediation.  Plus degreed in a Master of Science!

Writes: Mold Logic.  Solving health problems from indoor environments with science, rationale, and knowledge.  substack.com/profile/1347610-scott-armour

A good put-in point, which he provided the link to there, is titled The 7 Health Effects of Mold (or No Such Thing as Benevolent Mold). 

I encourage you to take the trip there and read it over.  At the bottom, it provides a link to the about and contact area of Scott's website: armourappliedscience.com/about

Here's just a portion of what you'll find there: 

        NOW AVAILABLE

Schedule one-on-one LIVE with Scott!

Choose from

Phone Consultation,

Question-and-Answer Session,

or

A Virtual Inspection of your home's condition!

click here: https://Distance-Consult-Inspect-With-Armour.as.me/

About The Expert:

J. Scott Armour, M.S.

Environmental Health.

Since 1993.

Chair of the IICRC Mold Removal Specialist certification.

Vice-Chair and contributing author of the Internationally recognized

"ANSI/IICRC S-520 Professional Mold Remediation Standard".

Scott is a mold assessment and remediation specialist and an internationally recognized expert in Indoor Environmental Quality where his focus for the last 3 years has been Environmentally Acquired Illness (EAI).

U.S., Canada, Australia, Great Britain, Puerto Rico! 

PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE

Mold and Moisture, Water Damage, Fire and Smoke Damage, Industrial Hygiene, Safety, Public Health, Research, Consulting, Training, Management, Non-Profit.

EDUCATION

M.S., Master of Science in Health Science, California State University, 1993, specialized in Environmental and Occupational Health (aka Industrial Hygiene).

B.A., Case Western Reserve University (Sociology with concentrated science typical of pre-med and environmental health).

His professional background spans a variety of industries, including public health, non-profit environmental health advocacy, research, industrial hygiene, OSHA/DOT/EPA compliance, education, and bio-safety.

His practice focuses on Mold & Moisture assessments and remediation design, Green Building, Industrial Hygiene, and Environmental Systems Management. He is regularly hired to provide litigation support in insurance, liability, and causation disputes.

Some of his recent industry participation has included:

ENVIRONMENTALLY ACQUIRED ILLNESS

ASSESSMENTS

for People with Mold Illness and Sensitivity

He is currently recommended by a large Functional Medicine department for their patients with Environmentally Acquired Illnesses that are caused by mold contamination and water damage. He conducts Home Mold Assessments and Building Mold Assessment for schools and offices. These assessments determine if patients are living with a significant mold and water damage problem that could the the cause of illness.

End - Scott Armour

END DRAFT OF MOLD THREAD, below lines is the original content placed on this thread years ago by a random user who registered.  (Which is not a function working any longer on Lumigrate, so I grabbed your photos, wove the thread together rather than having the three of our profiles sequentially adding on as i used to do.  This is less effort for the experts I request participation with, and about the same for me, so it works out okay).  

In a globalised world, where you get an access to every regional knowledge, culture and lifestyle, it is only natural for a traditional regional healthcare system like Ayurveda to get identified by the people across the globe. There are other alternative medical systems too getting identified by the world in this era. Even the World Health Organisation has come up with a suggestion that the whole world should try to harness the potential of these alternative medical systems in order to create a healthier, better word.

Ayurvedic treatment, by many means, is different from other alternative medical treatments. The system takes a holistic approach to health, considering the well being of both body and mind. The medicines prescribed in Ayurveda are the products of research, experience and knowledge of thousands of years.

Some people consider Ayurveda as an obsolete medical system, incapable of keeping pace with the changing times. But Ayurveda is one of the most up-to-date medical systems in the world. The sages foresaw the necessity of the system to be frequently updated and you can see this aspect of Ayurveda in the books of one of its proponents, the great Vagbhata. The practitioners still follow the directives of proponents, so there are extensive researches done in Ayurveda which helped the system come up with medicines for many deadly diseases – be it in the ailments' beginning or later stages