Kvetching About Fibromyalgia and Making Memories with NEW Doctors (and Pharmacists!)

Hi Yenta,

My name is Mona. I recently went to a pain managememt doctor here in Los Angeles. For my fibromyalgia, she recommended a Metagenics products called Fibroplex which is a powder, to be mixed in with high dose fish oil EPA-DHA liquid drops. She has these products on her own site which you have to buy from her. I'm sure she's making a profit off of it.

When I asked if I could buy these products in a health food store like Whole Foods for instance, she said NO. I find this kind of not kosher. Nu, what do you think?

I would love to know if you've done any research on these products.

Thanks so much dawlink,

Mona Prager

Mona dawlink!  Wonderful to see you on here, libling, and I'm going to answer your first question right away.  No, bubeleh, I've never tried Metagenics, however, that's not to say I'd discourage you.  My friend Ellen, used to work for a store which sold a lot of that type of product so you can tell your doctor friend to kish mon tuchus (no need for interpretation, no?).  There are likely many providers who sell Metagenics in your area -- some products are only distributed through medical offices.  The provider most likely makes some extra revenue from the mark up on it. This does NOT make her a bad doctor, dawlink, nor does it make her unethical - it would however, make me think twice about going back to her if she's going to be an aggressive sales person as well as doctor.

I'm going suggest that you go on the Metagenics website or look up their phone number and call them to find out where the product is being sold.  As a matter of fact call them, and while you're talking ask if they have a coupon.  In this economic time who could agrue with good sense, no?  There's more, I'm afraid to think about.

Before you take ANY supplement, check it against any medication your taking and naturally ask your health care providers.  This can include pharmacists, physicians, and others who are allowed and qualified for such important advise.   A website I use for drug interactions: www.drugs.com [8]

Don't forget to call and ask for your coupon when you call the company (see my earlier piece here on Lumigrate about coupon therapy). And while you're at it, call all major products in your cupboards -- mark it on your calendar for a month.  It couldn't hurt!

Your

Yenta

Mardy's note: An MD in the late 1990s helped me a LOT with getting to a better form of nutrition supplement when he sold me Metagenics.  I was working out of town and then I returned to my home city of Denver and it was hard to purchase.  I was in shopping at Vitamin Cottage (now called Natural Grocers), and found a brand made by Metagenics called 'Ethical Nutrients' -- they had identical information, identical layout, just different company name and 'manufactured by Metagenics'!  Interrresting -- Metagenics will tell providers they don't distribute through brick and mortar/retail but they create another brand that's identical and sell THAT through retail.  Here's a link to the Malic/Mag/B supplement at Vitamin Cottage/Natural Grocers in case anyone wants to go look/purchase.  www.vitamincottage.com/malic_magnesium_by_ethical_nutrients_120_tablets_s_126893_gm_-p-5285.html [9]

Well this was fabulous 'serendipity' that Yenta and Mona had this discussion stream going JUST as I was about to announce a NEW resource for information at Lumigrate.com related to the specifics of supplementing nutrition and hormones via a natural wellness pharmacy which compounds medications and has customers across the entire US and ships all across the US (except there are restrictions on shipping into California, but that doesn't mean they won't welcome an inquiry from people from California as they are much into education and helping people get well and will provide guidance). 

ITC Compounding and Natural Wellness Pharmacy is also a Colorado-based company that I have met with for in total a day of in-person time after as many hours on the phone and even MORE hours with emails they patiently have cyphered through.  I think it's GRATE that we all got what the other is doing and were up for collaboration.

If you listen to the podcast of them which is now posted at Lumigrate (search on ITC from within Lumigrate, or go to the iTunes store and download it if you're a tech-savvy person), you'll see why that wasn't too intimidating to go meet with them, as they are really very friendly, personable professionals. Gary King, RPh and Allan Jolly, also RPh (and ND as well) supervise a substantial staff that operates like a really intact team.  Podcasts are currently the very topmost forum if you click on Forums and you can listen on your computer via one link or go to iTunes on the other link I provide.

I hope that helps from the technical aspect, Mona and I'll ask Yenta to stop back by and let you know what she thinks as well. With any luck, Yenta'll give ITC a call -- they know who she is, they took a photo with the Peace Fleece she sent me this past holiday season to use with fibromyalgia awareness! (For that story, look in the Fibro Awareness Forum here at Lumigrate in the Fibromyalgia section, but for here, I'v included the photo, above, FYI).  And I'll let Gary and Allan know of this really neat piece/stream to stop by and comment on!  Thanks everybody! On the original of this I put a long history of my Metagenics history and the last two years on Lumigrate of supplement suggestions and why it was I sought after ITC for Lumigrate so enthusiastically, because I so very much appreciate finding top supplements and advise combined. (So for those details look in Yenta's "It Can't Hurt" forum in the Fibromyalgia section if you want all those details.  I streamline things here and not include them and get on to ITC and Yenta's continuing conversation as it is WONDERFUL! 

~~ Mardy

It is true that you cannot buy Metagenics' products at mass market retailers like Whole Foods.  There's much to all the ins and out of the supplement industry that I've learned over the years, as well as Gary, and perhaps we can share more on Lumigrate about that at a future time when we have time to prepare that for your Lumigrate followers if they're interested.

We at ITC have always focused on the highest quality supplements at the very best price and to use the fewest products/supplements to get the best results.  For example, our UltraEssentials and Amino Mag gives the patient a complete multivitamin, trace minerals, antioxidants, fish oil, activated B vitamins (very important in fibromyalgia) and magnesium glycinate for about $1/day vs. just a magnesium supplement such as Fribroplex for almost $2 per day.

Links to our products portion of the ITC Website: For Ultra Essentials : itcpharmacy.com/store/cart.php [13]

and for Amino Mag www.itcpharmacy.com/store/cart.php [14]  

I enjoyed reading and learning about Yenta and her many skills. Also glad to get a better understanding about the Peace Fleece and that it was made by Yenta, as I had not understood that before.

ITC pharmacy is very excited about working with Lumigrate and we hope your readers are able to take advantage of ITC’s expertise in BHRT*, FM, CFIDS, including Allan’s expertise, especially in GUT health. I presume his response on this was helpful and naturally welcome your calls and further questions for us.  As Yenta says, It Can't Hurt! 

* Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome

Oy vey!  Who knew I'd be limed (subject of study - sotospeak).  Hello there Corporate bubelehs, how are you?  Your Yenta is farklemt (choked up) with pride at the moment but I wanted to thank you for the correction, Liblings.  It was my impression that most things are sold in stores or online, I didn't realize you had an exclusive with doctors.  Must be a good thing you make there, no?  So, tell me more.  Better yet, tell US more.  Are you picky as to what doctors get to carry your product?  Do I need to be careful of drug interactions (you never know)? Am I allowed to go out in the sun and do my gardening if I'm well enough, it hasn't rained in 24 hours, the elephants aren't wearing yellow polka dotted pajamas and the palm trees aren't turned upside down?  You can laugh at that one Liblings - It couldn't hurt!

Your

Yenta

ITC is a retailer which focuses sales to the public/consumer/'patient', not a wholesaler.  Providers could purchase from us but they pay the same price as a patient would. We're pharmacists who were used to dealing with the medical consumer so grew ITC in that direction and that's where our focus has remained. However, we do consulting with providers and appreciate opportunities to educate them as well as the public.  That's why we liked the format of Lumigrate which is working to educate both aspects of the health care equation.

I hope you give us a call if you have questions we might help you with -- find the information on our website, the link to which is in my signature area, below.

Gary dawlink,

Again thank you bubeleh.  Your Yenta enjoys a good correction as much as a good banter, believe you, me, Libling.  It's so nice to know there's someone out there looking out for our best health and not necessarily for their own wallet.  Of course, it's understood you should make gelt (money) but it should go without saying, no?

So tell me, dawlink, are you all over the country? I should be able to get you here in Florida and back in New York?  My Tanta (Aunt) Sara can get something of yours in California, while Cousin Mandy needs your help in Ohio (I have yet to understand why she would move there but it's none of my business). 

And by the way Gary, is the company on Facebook?  Are you Twitter?  Do you do that LinkedIn thing?  I have yet to learn how to operate some of them but I'll get there; Rubin, Ellen's son said he'll teach me.  Such a mench. If you haven't joined these networks yet my dawlinks, perhaps you should look into them.  Say it with me, It couldn't hurt!  Oy! I'm kvelling!

Your

Yenta

Yenta,
I learned a long time ago that I made more money taking care of my customers then I did trying to make money off of them. You are correct however that if I wasn’t good at making money I wouldn’t be in business and if I was not in business I would not be able to help all the people I have helped.

We currently have customer/patients in all 50 states but we do not ship prescriptions into California. If you want to spread the word among your followers about ITC we will make certain that like we do with all our patients that we take the best care we can to help them achieve optimal health. We may not always get them there but we will do our best.

What is a twitter and a LinkedIn? Just kidding! but since I am a grumpy old man and too busy working or golfing to sit in front of a computer or mobile device after I leave the pharmacy, I try to avoid the social network. You may find it hard to believe but I only have a regular old cell phone and once I get to the golf course or home I turn it off.

Gary

Gary totally teases about being a grumpy old man.  If he's grumpy then I'm really grumpy and if he's old then I'm almost old -- he's energy and youthful appearance is an inspiration about 'doing as he does' with health concepts.  I think there's going to be a renaissance to the kind of lifestyle you embrace, Gary, so please don't feel like you're not the uncool kid in the class but perhaps the start of a new trend for those of us who would like to be as healthy as you are when we're the age of someone who might possibly be older and wiser....

~~ Mardy

I find the expertise and customer service with ITC Pharmacy and with Robin Thomas outstanding and have ordered supplements from each of them in order to fully understand their processes and ways.  Robin's background is as a scientist -- she's a 'standout' in the world of MLM and works with a tremendous company which I'm appreciating more now that I'm reading the new book The Healthy Home (see information soon at the Lumigrate bookshelf forum about it and in the forum on what goes into your home / work/ environment related to health).   

I have chosen to include "Network Marketing", "Direct Marketing" and "Multi-Level Marketing" at Lumigrate because it's something virtually everyone ends up being approached by/aware of at the very least and, when done appropriately and with high standards, can be an effective way for people to get products.   As with anything, there is variety -- some are good, some are not -- and these types of companies are no exception.  I've included NM/DM/MLM with some risk to Lumigrate because of the eyeroll you get when "MLM" is brought up typically.  But in the tough economy and with the low cost to get into a business such as a MLM, it's flooded the US with people selling EVERYTHING!  So that's raised controversy AS WELL AS awareness about supplements, which is fabulous! 

... So I created a forum about 'how things are marketed' so we can have THAT as a resource for Lumigrate's users!  Robin's written something lovely there actually -- really inspiring and honest about her life and why she works from home in MLM and with USANA.  I hope that she and ITC and any other qualified people will contribute something in that section of Forums to explain more to us about how the commerce works in the various routes people can obtain supplements and other health related products. The reason I do that is in order to make people better aware of the costs involved and where they come from so people can made the best decisions possible about spending their resources (time, energy, money) on products (or not). 

I'm blushing, Mardy   But I do appreciate the mention.  We have become GRATE friends ( as you would say)  Mardy knows that the most important thing when looking at our health is to do the very best thing for YOU!  And that is why we have choices in our life.   ( can you see I'm having fun with the graphics today) 

It's so nice to meet Gary and Allan here .  ITC sounds like a caring, quality business, and I'd love to learn more. 

Yes, I am a USANA associate, but I also use supplements with my family from other providers.  First of all, USANA only introduces new products after a very SLOW, CAREFUL process of researching through literature, careful consideration of raw material source, trial use at Sanoviv Holistic Clinic  www.sanoviv.com [28]  under the guidance of the physicians and healers there, and third party validation.  SO... they don't have the corner on everthing that is needed.  In my household we use Douglas Labs, Metagenics, Designs for Health, Systemic Formulas, and Perque products as well as USANA products. 

Most chiropractors and holistic wellness centers sell supplements out of their office for the convenience of their clients.  Now, there are always certain people in any business who are just out for the money... but that is not necessarily the case.  It can be very difficult to qualify an excellent supplement (one that meets both purity and potency excellence)  so it is best to buy from companies who know their business. 

Mardy has a lot of experience and she trusts ITC.  Therefore, I would trust ITC to provide excellent products. 

My family goes to three different chiropractors ( I go to one, my son goes to two- one in MN, one local)  They all have varied specialties and I trust them.  My son's chiropractors are more informed about supplements' quality and I trust them, so I trust the supplements they recommend.  

After 7 years, I trust the scientists at USANA to provide the highest quality of products they can manufacture.  I also trust NSF, ConsumerLabs, Lyle MacWilliam, and other third party certifications ( actually more than I trust the FDA, sadly)  Therefore, I trust the USANA supplements. 

It doesn't matter to me how the products are sold, whether they be in a store, at a pharmacy, mailorder, or MLM... what is important is the quality of the product! 

Unfortunately, it does take money to develop quality products... and it actually takes more money to transport and store in warehouses many products that are ultimately purchased at the big box stores than it does for either an independent pharmacy or direct mail order company, or even an MLM company.  So often, the "cheap" products from the big box stores have been marked up significantly.... even at their low price.... think about the quality of that supplement then....

I will stick with purchasing from my trusted sources.

and yes,  I like to tweet, blog, link, and FB  Does that make me "cool"  LOL!

Thanks, Robin, for having read this and hopped in as you did here to explain more about how YOU and your family utilize the different types of supplements and what USANA's piece in that is for you.  I know that you have always pointed me in good directions and operate under a code of conduct as a person and professional which is exemplary.  So it's just wonderful to have so much really good information and experts on these topics at Lumigrate!  You're all wonderful parents as well, and that includes Yenta from what I know of her family values.  I hope Mona stops by more so we can get to know more about her if she would like to share with us.  Her question really set off a helpful discussion, I believe.  ~~ Mardy

Likewise Robin it is great to meet you through Mardy’s Lumigrate site.

Allan and I feel that our success happens because, like you, we feel that the bottom line is helping patients and to do that we have to use high quality products. That includes both our compounded natural hormones and the supplements that we have researched over the years looking for both high quality and reasonable prices.

For those who read here because they have FM/CFIDS, these patients have often been sick for a long time before they find us and it can take some perseverence with time, quality supplements and often bio-identical hormone balancing to help them get better. That can become a fairly expensive situation so trying to get high quality for a reasonable price has always been one of our priorities.

Again, good to meet you and I hope we can speak in person on the phone or now they've got me using this Skype on occasion as well -- I see you're quite techy in your signature.  You'll see I've said I turn my cellular phone off when I get home or to the golf course, but I truly enjoy talking with people who are into supplements and eduation about these types of strategies for wellness and better health. 

Gary

Mardy dawlink,

Kvetching is an art but I'm going to tell you Libling you're a fast learner. Truth be told, to kvetch means to complain, i.e. "oy! my aching back" or "Would someone PLEASE turn on the air conditioner!" or "you call this a chicken? My father (G-d rest his soul) wore out shoes that had more meat on them than this!"  That my dawlinks, is kvetching - but you're catching on.  By the time the turn of the century rolls around you'll be speaking Yiddish like a pro.  Speaking of which, Gary dawlink - Florida golf courses are very nice this time of the year and they are starting to empty out now. The snow birds are flying home as Moisha and I will be doing soon as well.

Robin bubeleh, I'm so happy to hear that you go to a Chiropractor and so does your son.  Such wonderful people!  Ellen swears by hers and says if it were for him she wouldn't be able to do her job at the supermarket.  I believe it too, you should see what this woman does... Oy vey!  It would make your head spin, and spit pea soup!

I have to tell you though, at the moment I'm using up what I have in my cabinets as far as suppliments go. I know they're garbage (Sundown) but I had a coupon and it was easy to grab at the time.  So now that I know you boys things will be very different, no?

OK, no more kvetching.  Everybody take a deep breath.  I saw that Mardy... do it again... Gut (good), now blow it out and take your time about it.  Relax. Life is good my dawlinks, enjoy every moment.  Drink it in, dance in the wind and laugh in the rain (provided it's not lightening out of course).  It couldn't hurt!

Your

Yenta

We use the highest quality supplements for our patients, and as Mardy says “she can’t believe how fairly priced they are”. We have always strived to provide our patients with what they need and hopefully at a price they can afford because if the patient doesn’t take the supplements because they cannot afford them, then they will not be able to improve.

My Colorado “snow bird” golfing buddy is still in Florida enjoying your beautiful weather and said he would be back in Colorado by May 15th. He loves living in Florida half the year and Colorado half the year because he can play golf year around in beautiful weather by taking advantage of the best golf weather months that each state has.

Gary

I had to chuckle at Yenta about the coupon for some not so 'grate' supplements, I'd imagine.  (Though that is not my area of expertise to know the qualities of all of them on the market, I rely on people I encounter who ARE, and the bring them to you at Lumigrate.  If you look at Yenta's section ("It Can't Hurt, our Bubbie Yenta" is the title and it's located in the fibromaylgia section here in the forums), you'll see she had done a piece about "Coupon Therapy" and I am SO not a coupon person or one who buys something with a gimmick so I can get money back somehow ... it contributes to more paper, more things to remember and 'just not my thing'.  I look for deals at the quality places I shop -- I really 'vote with my dollar' increasingly, and try my best to stick to my personal ethics about who I do business with.  Naturally, that shifts with time.  Example: Recently I've tried to weigh transportation weight/costs to my formula and if there is a choice of a quality item that is a competitive/similar price that is produced closer to me, I go with that -- new to me in the last year.  Except seafood!   (I live in Colorado which is very 'landlocked'... )

So Saturday night after dinner, I had my box of stuff from ITC that had arrived in my car since one of my friends wanted to see what FOS was, as that was something recommended to me related to increasing gut health because I'd just had a round of antibiotics and clealry had yeast going if I got the sinus/lung thing ... my adrenals showed up as very fatigued in my testing and information/history I provided to Becca Slomiany, NP (who is under the roof of ITC for convenience and collaboration but her business is separate).  For example, their Multiple Vitamin Mineral, Antioxidant Formula from Ultra Genesis is $21.95 for 120 capsules and it's recommended to take 2/day, which is 60 days, so $11/month.  Previously/above, in the ? about Metagenics, Allan states the magnesium and etc product they would suggest that's comparable to 'Fibroplex' is $1/day which in my experience is 'a good price in supplement terms'.  It's kind of like knowing the conversion for dog years ... .

IF you want to watch Health Management video by Chris Young he talks about the advantage of being under one roof when it comes to the collaborative care model, which at the time of the filming was being used at the new IMC of Western Colorado.  It has a whole different batch of providers and services now which partly had to do with it being so very difficult to 'do' collaboration with many established professionals, from my perspective BUT the information in the video is really more about what ANY business can do if they're liberated from insurance billing/revenues/requirments (restrictions) and how the existing/historic model has created lack of communication between providers and the patient suffers for it -- getting the run around.  

I also want to encourage people to look at Robin Thomas' link and study about USANA; it's a tremendous quality supplement and, like ITC, they spend money on having outside entities validate their quality.  Robin is wonderful to work with; she knows I obtain and take supplements from her/USANA and ITC, but I'm set up for autoship and she puts it in her schedule to contact and say 'do you need this or should I postpone it?' and I find their company as interesting and amazing as ITC.  Again, CHOICES  I like to present on something like this so there you have it!  ~~ Mardy